T Nation

Program Feedback


#1

Hi, I've been trying to add a fourth training day in the week, because I feel like I can handle more volume now.

How does this look?

Monday:
Deadlift 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)
Chinups 6-8,8-10,10-12
OHP 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)

Wednesday:
Squat 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)
Cable Rows 3x8-12
Bent Over Row 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)

Friday
Bench 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)
Chin Ups 6-8,8-10,10-12
OHP 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)

Saturday:
Squat 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)
Cable Rows 3x8-12
Bent Over Row 5x5(+5 ramp up warm up sets)

I've tried to set it up the best way possible so that the lifts don't interfere with each other. My goal is to get stronger on those lifts in those rep ranges.

I'd appreciate some feedback.


#2

whats your maxes right now?


#3

[quote]Reps for Ozzy wrote:
whats your maxes right now?[/quote]

1RMs are Squat: 105Kgs, Bench Press: 87.5Kgs, Deadlift: 127.5Kgs


#4

At what weight and height?


#5

Looks like a decent albeit boring plan, what has your last few months of training consisted of? How much have you progressed the past few months?


#6

Do more work on the main lifts. Judging by your program, I would guess you plan to compete in the squat, OHP and chin up - or maybe cable row. As Jim Wendler has said, don’t major in the minors.


#7

I weigh 70kg and my height is somewhere around 180cm.

My last few months of training consisted on doing Squat 5x5, Bench Press 5x5, Deadlift 5x5. All performed 3x per week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Doing ramp up warming sets for each. I reached a plateau because I got a lot better at Squatting and Deadlifting. When I squatted I no longer had strength to improve my deadlift.

About the majoring in the minors thing, Isn’t squatting heavy two times a week enough? and Deadlifting and Benching once. The reason I added more exercises is because I wanted more volume since I’m on a caloric surplus I wan’t that energy to be put into good use. I tried to choose the best exercises after the Big 3 and set them up in the best way I thought wouldn’t affect my progress in the main lifts.


#8

Forgot to say how much I’ve progressed. In about 30 workouts or something like 12-14 weeks I took my 5RMs from Squat: 70kg-100kg, Bench Press 65-77.5kg, Deadlift 75kg-117.5kg. I basically followed a basic linear progression with each lift.


#9

Forgot to say how much I progressed. In about 30 workouts or something like 12-14 weeks of training I added this to 5RMs.
Squat: 70kg-100kg
Bench Press: 65kg-77.5kg
Deadlift: 75kg-117.5kg


#10

[quote]EnriqueP wrote:
Forgot to say how much I progressed. In about 30 workouts or something like 12-14 weeks of training I added this to 5RMs.
Squat: 70kg-100kg
Bench Press: 65kg-77.5kg
Deadlift: 75kg-117.5kg[/quote]

That’s great progress. For that extra squat session, you can keep it simple by doing straight weight for 5x5 with a weight that isn’t too taxing (maybe 80-90% of the Wednesday weight) and doesn’t take away from your performance on Monday and Wednesday lower body work. Also, I would suggest to have two bench sessions instead of two OHP sessions. Changing only one or two things each cycle will help you easily evaluate whether it works or not.


#11

[quote]EnriqueP wrote:
I weigh 70kg and my height is somewhere around 180cm.

My last few months of training consisted on doing Squat 5x5, Bench Press 5x5, Deadlift 5x5. All performed 3x per week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Doing ramp up warming sets for each. I reached a plateau because I got a lot better at Squatting and Deadlifting. When I squatted I no longer had strength to improve my deadlift.

About the majoring in the minors thing, Isn’t squatting heavy two times a week enough? and Deadlifting and Benching once. The reason I added more exercises is because I wanted more volume since I’m on a caloric surplus I wan’t that energy to be put into good use. I tried to choose the best exercises after the Big 3 and set them up in the best way I thought wouldn’t affect my progress in the main lifts.[/quote]
Squatting 2x/week should be good for someone at your level, but cutting bench and deadlift down to 1x each from 3x is probably not a good idea. Reducing your volume by 2/3 is not a good plan for progress. I agree that deadlifting at the end of every workout isn’t the best way to do things because you won’t have much energy left, it’s the last lift in a meet but you would have a break between each lift and you won’t be doing multiple reps either. Here’s a few ideas:

-Keep the 5x5 setup but deadlift first on one day, lower % for squat
-Change some of the lifts to variations (ex.: deficit deadlift, pause squat, pin squat, floor press, etc.)
-Do the extra work (rows, chins, abs, conditioning) on a separate GPP day or two

Rows, chin ups, and military press are all good exercises, but the carryover to the main lifts is limited. Rows and chins are mostly for shoulder health unless you lift equipped, I doubt you will have a hard time touching the bar to your chest without a bench shirt. Doing each of these once a week is plenty, and it shouldn’t be prioritized over the main lifts if powerlifting is your goal. And since I see you are a bit confused as to what you should do next, you could try the Texas method or a 3 day Sheiko program for beginners. Those programs are basically guaranteed to get you results as long as you put in the effort and you will save yourself a lot of confusion.


#12

I overlooked the key detail that you said you hit all three lifts 3x per week. Now that you’re effectively reducing overall volume in all main lifts but slightly increasing intensity, I’m not exactly sure how effective it will be compared to before. Why don’t you just run the same program again? Once you hit a plateau you could try tapering off the volume by doing sets of 3 (similar to a periodized 5x5 program) until that slows down and then go for a PR.

Otherwise, run a linear 5x5 program like the Texas Method for at least a couple cycles until you stop making gains and then move on to a periodized 5x5 program or something else like Chris suggested.


#13

Hi guys, thanks for the help.

I don’t wan’t to do the same 5x5 program because it only lets me train 3 days a week and I feel like I could train in the weekends too. I don’t feel sore at all. I took advantage of the plateau to change into a four day split.

The reason I set it up with two OHPs per week and one bench is because my bench has stalled heavily because of my lack of shoulder strength. My chest doesn’t get tired from benching, but my shoulders and triceps give out.

I tried to fit in another bench and deadlift, but I couldn’t figure out how to do it without affecting recovery for the other workouts. I can’t deadlift on the same day I squat and if I move the bench to squat day and replace it with a deadlift I won’t be able to squat on saturday.

The reason I added all the other rows and chin ups is because I feel like I have nearly exhausted my beginner strength gains and at 180cm weighing 70kg I am pretty small. I thought I would benefit from working in the 8-12 rep ranges and pulling a bit more to strengthen my shoulders and back.

I know there isn’t much carryover, but doesn’t the increase in muscle size carryover?


#14

[quote]EnriqueP wrote:
Hi guys, thanks for the help.

I don’t wan’t to do the same 5x5 program because it only lets me train 3 days a week and I feel like I could train in the weekends too. I don’t feel sore at all. I took advantage of the plateau to change into a four day split.

The reason I set it up with two OHPs per week and one bench is because my bench has stalled heavily because of my lack of shoulder strength. My chest doesn’t get tired from benching, but my shoulders and triceps give out.

I tried to fit in another bench and deadlift, but I couldn’t figure out how to do it without affecting recovery for the other workouts. I can’t deadlift on the same day I squat and if I move the bench to squat day and replace it with a deadlift I won’t be able to squat on saturday.

The reason I added all the other rows and chin ups is because I feel like I have nearly exhausted my beginner strength gains and at 180cm weighing 70kg I am pretty small. I thought I would benefit from working in the 8-12 rep ranges and pulling a bit more to strengthen my shoulders and back.

I know there isn’t much carryover, but doesn’t the increase in muscle size carryover?[/quote]

At 180cm you have a lot of room to grow. A lot of the strongest lifters around your height are at least in the 83kg class (only one person comes to mind in the 74kg class and he’s a rare exception) and most often heavier at the highest levels. Focusing on adding mass at this point should be your highest priority if you want to build a solid foundation for the future.

I honestly think you had great success with doing 5x5 for SQ/BP/DL 3x a week and you can definitely continue to get stronger if you eat to gain weight. It doesn’t even have to be that much - a couple kgs over the cycle would make a noticeable difference. A solution with minimal changes that satisfy your needs would be something like this:

Monday: SQ- 5x5 , BP- 5x5, DL- 5x5
Wednesday: SQ- 5x5, OHP- 5x5, DL- 5x5
Friday: SQ- 5x5, BP- 5x5, DL- 5x5
Saturday: SQ- 5x5 (light/med), OHP- 5x5

You can add chinups and dumbbell rows at the end of any session. Just aim for something like 20-30 reps total with a light/moderate weight. These are both accessory work so they shouldn’t cause much fatigue. If the lower body movements get too heavy to handle then just focus on SQ for Monday and Friday while doing a lower percentage for DL and focus on DL for Wednesday while doing a lower percentage for SQ. When any of the lifts hit a plateau you can switch to a 3x3 scheme to taper the volume for higher intensity.

If your chest is being underutilized you can play around with a slightly wider grip (if your grip is narrow).


#15

[quote]EnriqueP wrote:
I don’t feel sore at all.

I tried to fit in another bench and deadlift, but I couldn’t figure out how to do it without affecting recovery for the other workouts.[/quote]

If you’re not sore then what makes you think you aren’t recovering?


#16

I know that I have a lot of room to grow, that’s why I am eating in a caloric surplus for nearly 2 months already. Aiming to gain about 220g-300g of body weight per week. My plateau was while eating in a caloric surplus.

Maybe I am recovering between sessions, but if I squat and deadlift on the same day the one that comes second is going to suffer. I’m guessing that’s why I stalled. I was gaining body weight, I was not feeling sore, but my lifts were not progressing.

My grip is not narrow.

I just felt like I was overreaching. Not being a pussy. When I train I push myself to the limit.


#17

Overreaching implies that you are not recovering between sessions and accumulating fatigue. In your case, you just don’t have the necessary work capacity to have a good deadlift workout after squatting. Easy solution: deadlift first one day a week.

Still, just because you aren’t setting PRs doesn’t mean that the training isn’t doing anything for you. Training in a fatigued state forces you to concentrate more on technique and can still make you stronger, even if it doesn’t show in that particular workout.


#18

If you don’t feel anything in your chest on bench it could be that your pecs aren’t firing properly or they are just weak so your shoulders and triceps are doing all the work. Dumbbell bench is a good option for targeting the pecs, a few flys won’t hurt either but don’t get carried away on those.