T Nation

Program Critique


#1

Input on program would be greatly appreciated
Each day starts with a compound exercise with an emphasis on power/strength and is then repeated with an emphasis on volume followed by auxiliary exercises.

Day 1: (legs/calves)
Squat 10X3
Squat 3X10
Leg Curls 3X10
Stand Calf Raises 3X10
Seated Calf Raises 3X10

Day 2: (chest/shoulders/tri)
Bench 10X3
Bench 3X10
Delt Triad 3X10
Lock Outs 3X10
Skull Crushers 3X10

Day 3: (Back/Biceps)
Dead Lift 10X3
Dead Lift 3X10
Bent Row 3X10
Chin Up 5XF
Barbell Curls 5X10

Day 4:
OFF

Day 5: (legs/calves)
Squat 10X3
Squat 3X10
Stiff Leg Dead lift 3X10
Stand Calf Raises 3X10
Seated Calf Raises 3X10

Day 6: (chest/shoulders/tri)
Military Press 10X3
Military Press 3X10
Incline Bench 3X10
Incline Flys 3X10
Narrow Grip Bench 5X10

Day 7: (Back/Biceps)
Bent Row 10X3
Bent Row 3X10
Pull Up 5XF
Hammer Curls 3X10
Reverse Curls 3X10

Day 8:
Off

â?¦..repeat.

What do you think, to much volume, not enough, completely asinine?
Thanks in advance.


#2

I think the split is good in itself, basically a legs/push/pull split.

Volume seems fine to me, though maybe someone with more experience would like to chime in.


#3

I think this idea is retarded.

You want to do 10 heavy sets of a big lift, and then follow that immediately with 3 sets of 10 reps? 13 sets of an exercise? That sucks. Why would you do that?

Why not just train NORMALLY?


#4

The 10x3 includes warm up and ramping sets, only the last 3-4 sets are taxing (true work sets). Do have some suggestions, what do you mean by normally? Think I would be better off using two different exercises to get the volume up?


#5

This is fucking bizarre!

Where did you come up with this shit? And have you seen ONE successful powerlifter or bodybuilder implement this fucked up rep scheme of 10 x 3 followed by 3 x 10 in the same exercise?

Have you ever worked up to a 3-rep max in the bench, squat, or deadlift over the course of 10 sets? Do you know what it feels like? If you have, and did it right, you might ask yourself after the 3 rep max, "How am I gonna get through the rest of this workout?"

And make up your mind! You're gonna powerlift or bodybuild? Which one?!


#6

Normally, this is what a real workout intended for increasing strength with the max effort method (eg, 10 x 3 "RAMPED") lookes like:

1) Work up a 3 rep max in a squat or DL variation.
2) Posterior chain-hamstring exercise like GHRs or good mornings.
3) Unilateral exercise like lunges or stepups.
4) Abdominal exercise(s).

GOD HELP US!


#7

That's why I'm asking for input. I've actually been doing this for the last week and a half trying to get a feel for my poundages and found it quite enjoyable. Maybe once my poundages get up there I'll find it as taxing as the two of you say I should. After a two month layoff from an open appendectomy and losing 15 lbs. I'm trying to find a way to gain back as much strength and weight as fast as possible. I guess I didn't see this as much more than adding a strength component to regular bb template. Thanks for the input.


#8

My input (although I don't know everything about everything and I've been wrong sometimes and maybe here in this thread too) is:

1) Bastardized (eg, power-bodybuilding) programs give bastardized results.
2) And even if you want to do some bastardized program the way you're going about it is not the way to go.

But of course you most likely are (though I could be wrong again) the type of person (which is becoming so common here) who asks well-informed and intelligent people for information and personal stories only to ignore it all anyway, and wind up having made conversation for conversation's sake at the expense of other people's thoughtful input.


#9

Brick

I asked for advice because I wanted it, I need it. It was a sincere thank you. You made a valid point choose you're discipline - strength or bodybuilding, no middle road. I can respect that.


#10

Alright so the opening compound 10X3 for each day looks like a no go. So if it's removed, what does the crowd think about the remainder of the programs? What might need added or removed to make this a solid program?


#11

Please refer to these first:

The Bodybuilding Bible thread
CT's Beginner Series
CT's "How to Design a Damn Good Program"
CT's "Pump Down the Volume"
CT's "Training Strategy Roadmap (or Handbook)" (forgot the exact title)

Design a program with that information.

Then report back.


#12

Alright, then I was wrong; so I apologize.


#13

Although in general I agree with the things Brick has to say (in fact, if you want to see what normal training means, refer yourself to his Bodybuilding Bible thread), but in this case I personally would have to say fuck the idea of choosing between "strength" or "bodybuilding".

I think the best results are seen when people pursue both, although you can't just take two completely different training programs intended for different purposes and mash them together into one and expect the results of both.

Getting bigger has everything to do with getting stronger. I don't mean 1-3 rep, shortened range of motion, ow-my-joints-hurt getting stronger... I mean adding weight to the basic exercises as often as you can while staying in a 6-12 rep range (and gaining bodyweight)


#14

That's a bodybuilding program you're talking about, my same recommendation.


#15

Split is fine. The rest needs work. My advice, go with Bricks suggestions here (I made it easy):

(It's "Training Strategy Handbook")

If you still are really hankering to try something less traditional, but still want a good program, see here: http://www.tmuscle.com/issues/622/622.jsp#introducing_high_volume_tier_training and if you have time for it, here: http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/what_i_am_doing_now_repost_for_another_thread?id=3433589&pageNo=0

I'm going to read through all these tonight just to refresh.

Like Brick said, "Design a program with that information....Then report back."


#16

I have numerous times, and thought I had applied what they had to offer (with the exception of my little twist with the 10x3). Guess not. According to the articles I should remove my first 10x3 and add back in a secondary exercise (3x10) for the major muscle group for that day (ie, hack squat on leg day; pullovers on chest day, etc.) I just thought by doubling up on the major compound for the day and using it in different rep ranges I would be getting the best of both worlds and hopefully get get back to where I was relatively quickly. Everyone has there own philosphies and ideas, but again you can't argue with the basics and time proven tradition.
My appologies BTW, I intended this to be posted in the beginners forum. I had multiple tabs open and obviously picked the wrong one as I posted. Night all


#17

Mr Popular,

I couldn't agree more.
What secondary exercise would either of you suggest for each day (leg, chest, back) utilizing only a basic bench/squat stand and a set of free weights?


#18

Honestly I wouldn't do any "secondary exercise" anyway... I would just keep it simple and stick with the basics at a relatively high frequency if I only had access to your equipment.


#19

Alright guys well I guess I'll have to give the beginners articles another look over, must be over my head. Thanks again.


#20

Dude, this isn't hard.

Example:

CHEST

Barbell bench press (primary exercise)
Dumbbell incline press (secondary)
Incline flies (tertiary)
Cable crossovers (tertiary)

Is this hard?

And if you do 6 to 12 reps, you're on a bodybuilding program.