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Progesterone Cream to Help Increase Testosterone, Help?


#1

Hey guys, I’ll try to make this quick.

In my mid-20’s i was going through some stressful life situations, working full time while going to school, training hard eating like crap and abusing caffeine to no end which basically led to adrenal fatigue and low testosterone.

At 27 I decided to get things back on track using adaptogens, lowering my caffeine intke and eating paleo style. Things rebounded well but I noticed lack of drive/motivation.

Got my testosterone checked and it was low. I am in canada and the reference scale we use shows a normal range from 20-29 for males in their 20’s. I scored a 22. My estrogen was a high normal, almost topping out but I can’t remember the exact number.

My GP was no help so I went to a naturopath and through a prescription of an anti-estrogen combo of DIM, Calcium d-glucarate, green tea extract and curcumin. In about a month my estrogen was about mid range in normal and my testosterone shot up to 27. Not bad and I felt great. However, after stopping, my numbers went back to what they were before. Not sure why.

Then I got into the police academy and didn’t have time or money to see naturopath but did was i could in terms of supplements and diet to keep estrogen low.

While in the academy I got a serious shoulder injury/pec strain which led to chronic pain for months even with treatment until I got some dry needling done. While doing use of force training I would bruise like a peach compared to everyone else. I had done physical sports in the past and never had this issue and some of the other recruits seemed concerned.

Went to my doctor and my estrogen was mid range normal but my testosterone was down to 17.9! However, by this time I am now 30 years old and still fall within the normal range so my doctor refused to do anything.

Over the following months I came across anabolichealth.com and the writer talked about progesterone helping low T. I thought I would give it a shot. First month I didn’t see much but on the second month I started to sleep better, feel more motivated, recover well, gain more vascularity.

Now according to the writer, progesterone can antagonize estrogen and reduces the conversion of T to DHT. That sparked my interest because my hair started thinning rapidly around this point making the first person ever on both sides of my family to go bald.

Now in terms of body comp, I have decent muscularity but easily gain bodyfat with too much drinking and an off/high carb diet. I carry fat on my hips, upper back and chest which is consistent with biosignatures high estrogen/carb intolerance.

So i figure if I use progesterone for too long and my T tops up then I’m at risk of a spill over into E.

So here is what I am thinking:

Use progesterone cream along with arimistane to stop the aromitase enzyme from converting T to E. This should help with the T to E ratio. Should I add dhea into the mix as well as both progesterone and DHEA help to increase T?

I would much appreciate thoughts, opinions and experiences of others who have dealt with something similar.

Oh and one more thing, I used the inbody bio-electrical impedance to measure body-fat as I was having a hard time losing weight at first. Now I know you have to be consistent with these so I always did it low on water, no food first thing in the morning. First month of progesterone I was stuck at a bf% of 17.5 but my muscle mass went up a kilo. Then the second month where I started feeling better, I went up another kilo of muscle, dropped to 16% bodyfat and lost one pound of bodyweight.

Stats: 5’10, 172lbs, Bench 1rm 235 (post shoulder injury), Squat 1rm 275 (ass to grass) and deadlift 1rm 365.

Thanks in advance!


#2

Please post all labs in list format with ranges. Not just hormones.

Progesterone can assist cortisol, useful if cortisol is low.

How much progesterone cream and what % w/v?
Where do you apply? Inner arms would be best absorption.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.

Progesterone to increase T does not make much sense, it is a bit HPTA repressive.


#3

Hey KSman!

I really appreciate you looking into this for me. \\i have seen your posts in the past, you offer great information.

I’ll be posting in chunks as I am at work on break and will get labs once I am home.

Who I am:

31 year old male, lifting most of my life. I am 5’10, 170lbs, 32 in waist.
Body hair - not much, light colored and thin, mostly on arms and legs nothing really on chest or back. Head is light brown hair now thinning on top over the last 2 years.

I have a masters in Kinesiology, certified Exercise physiologist, functional movement screen specialist, studied for my PCIP 1 and 2 and dabbled in biosignature but never certified. I used to work 3 years in a clinical facility working with individuals with cardiac issues, diabetes, parkinsons, and then i worked as a fitness consultant with the Police for 5 years before i switched roles and became a police officer as well.

No major health concerns or issues - family hx of type 2 diabetes, both mom and dad, my blood sugars tend to run high.
I average from 5.0-6.0 over various tests. In canada 4-5.9 is normal, 6.9 is pre-diabetic and consistently over 7.0 is diabetic.
I grew with with two sisters so I have been kicked in the testes multiple times, and had a testicular torsion scare when I was 15 but it turned out not to be the case. I have strained my testicle 3 times since then deadlifting - severe pain like a hernia but no tear. Even had ultrasound done.

My diet I try to do carb cycling around my workouts - eating carbs before and the meal after, and maybe in the meal before bed if I train in the morning. Calories are approximately 2200 but fluctuate. I gram of protein per pound of body fat, 150 grams of carbs, the rest in fat. I focus on increasing saturated fats and cholesterol. I eat around 700mg of cholesterol daily. I mostly drink vodka and red wine on weekends and sometimes beer in the summer. This is maybe 1 to 2 nights a week from 3-24(rare) drinks in a night. If i drink alcohol the night before, then in the morning I have no morning wood, otherwise I normally do. I sweat alot so I use celtic sea salt in almost every meal or add to water everyday. I eat seaweed and seafood atleast once a week. I like to use insulin mimickers like vinegar, cinnamon, psyllium/flax seed when i can.

Training is mostly poliquin style - agonist/antagonist training, 4x a week 45-60 minute sessions. 2 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off. I throw in the odd conditioning day when I have time, sprints, sled, kettlebells, tire and hammer, jacobs ladder etc. usually only lasts 30 mins.

No medications for anything but I do supplements, with protein, bcaas, creatine mono, fish oil, now adam multi, green tea extract, curcumin and caffeine preworkout. Before bed is 30 zinc, 400 magnesium glycinate, 1000mgvitamin c, 5000is vitamin d, and 5g glycine.I am lactose intolerant so I take probiotics (yes, always kept in fridge) and rhodiola post workout as well.

Never used any steroids knowingly, dont cook in plastics, and look for paraben free options in everything.

To be honest I havent looked much into thyroid/heavy metal issues, so I’ll read into if further when I have time tonight when I post the labs.

I am sorry this is all over the place and again, thanks for all of your help!


#4

LABS:

NOTE:
I live in Canada where healthcare is free and due to that fact it is suprisingly hard to get all the blood work you want done. Doctors argue and sometimes just straight refuse to do blood work therefore some of my blood work wont be comprehensive enough but I will do my best. It is a common problem both me and my friends come across when trying to get blood tests done. Whats worse is it takes weeks to even see a doctor.

So here we go:

June 29, 2015
glucose fasting: 5.4 (3.6-6)
a1c 5.1 (<6 ideal)
cholesterol fasting 3.9 (<5.2)
triglycerides .74 (<2.3)
HDL 1.6 (>1.0)
LDL 1.96 (<3.0)
Cholesterol Ratio 2.4 (<3.5)
and this is while I was shooting for 800mg of dietary cholesterol a day - thanks to Tim Ferriss

TSH 1.41 (0.35-5)
Free T4 - thyroxine 18.2 (12-22)
Free T 3 5.2 (2.6-5.7)

July 19, 2016

Glucose random 6.6 (3.6-7)
A1C 5.1 (<6)

Cholesterol random 4.3 (<5.2)
triglycerides 1.82 (<2.3)
HDL 1.4 (>1.0)
LDL 2.1 (<3.0)
Ratio 3.1 (<3.5)

TSH 1.88 (0.35-5)
Free T4 21.1 (12-22)
Free T3 5.4 (2.6-5.7)
Testosterone Total 17.8 (7.6-31.4) However I cam across a chart a while after saying for males in canada from 30-39 years should be a range of 17-29

It was also in this time frame that i suffered the severe bruising. If you pushed hard enough with a finger on my skin i would bruise and be sore the next day. This issue only lasted a few months.

November 30th, 2016

Estradiol 145 (<224)
Testosterone Total 22 (7.6-31.4)

Now to put it in perspective of how hard it is to get tests done, about a month after this I used a natural anti-estrogen with DIM, Calcium d glucarate, green tea extract and curcumin for 1 month and my T went to 27 but estradial is unknown. I didnt feel different at that time.

A month after that when I tried to get another T/E test done at my GP he refused, some yelling occurred and I havent seen him since. Still currently on a waiting list for a new doctor…

Anyways this is all I have at this point. I hope you can help me piece things together. I am interested in your thoughts on my thyroid hormones. I will be doing morning temperatures tomorrow and supplementing with kelp tablets after that. I have noticed that I am always cold.


#5

Tested my morning body temp upon waking.

August 15, 2017 - 97.3 at noon when I woke up (preparing for working nights)
August 16, 2017 - 97.3 at 16:00hrs when I woke up.

So I purchased some kelp and taken 2 tablets a day. Poliquin states that even though sea salt is low in iodine, it retains/absorbs better. I’ll still used iodized salt when I can.

BACK ON TOPIC:

Ok so I have been supplementing with progesterone cream for the last 2 months. 1/2 pump contains approximately 10mg. I rotate between application to inner arms or inner forearms right before bed.

Sleep, recovery, vascularity and strength have all improved and i feel younger with better energy and concentration.

Multiple people have noticed that i am leaner and more muscular and a few close friends asked about anabolic use.

Now my work partner and I train the same way and eat near identical, I am getting decent gains and my partner who is new to serious training is getting massive gains - bench went from 225-315 for 1 rm and deadlift from 135 to 405 all in 3 months!

I eat 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight across all animal protein sources, fats are about 40% of calories with high saturated fat and cholesterol and carbs the difference which usually lands at 150 grams give or take. I eat the bulk of my carbs peri-workout and before bed to increase serotonin and help me sleep.

Now I know progesterone is controversial as it can increase estrogen, but what if I am low T and progesterone? I beleive this is why I am having these results.

Then I saw this chart:

I find since I have low testosterone it makes sense to me. But at one point once my T increases it will convert to E.

Now if I combine progesterone with dhea that will better feed the testosterone pathway, right?

Now it too much T converts to E, if I use arimistane, an aromitase suicide inhibitor, that would prevent the conversion to E, right?

Now T could convert to DHT, which other then some hair loss doesnt bug me much, although thru my research, apparently progesterone reduces a5r.

Now I understand that this chart is a simplified chart of what really happens in the body.

So what I am asking is if anyone has experience with this?

Does it make sense?

Am I missing something?

My goal is to improve my T/E ratio without the use of AAS.

In Canada, doctors do not prescribe TRT easily, especially at my age. My fathers T is at 7 and his doctor still refused. My dad is 66.

Thanks in advance.


#6

As a follow up,

I continued the progesterone cream, 3 weeks on 1 week off each month then added Arimistane 100mg/day and 25mg of dhea before bed up until the beginning of august.

Long story short, i added about 5 lbs in weight, became significantly more vascular in the forearms and most of my big lifts went up around 10% and my rate of injury was non-existent.

I am happy with my results overall.

As of the begining of September, I took on a kitchen renovation project and since then have gained another 3 lbs from poor diet that hasnt quite rebounded. Training stays consistent and lifts are still great.


#7

You are avoiding iodized salt and are iodine deficient. You want natural salt. Used to be that goiters and retarded children, cretinism, were the normal until iodize salt was introduced in 1922. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretinism

Post your body temps so we can see where your thyroid function is.

Others in your home affected by sea salt?

Low thyroid function and low T both contribute to insulin resistance!