T Nation

Professor X: Politics Question


#1

After reading many of your posts,you have seemed to indicate that Bush lied to go to war using faulty intel.You also seem to like the Democratic party.I have no problem with your views,but I do have a question.Do you like or support former President Clinton,his wife Mrs.Sen.Clinton,or former VP canidate Lieberman?

All three supported the Iraqi war,and to this day,still say the war in Iraqi is justified.Bill Clinton even said he had the same intel Bush has,and was forced to take action in 98 when Saddam kicked UN inspectors out of the country.He said that all intel pointed to Saddam continuing his WMD programs,same thing Bush used to remove Saddam.Now,I'm no fan of Bush,but do you hate Bush SO much that it blinds you to the facts?


#2

LMAO. You aren't going to get anywhere throwing out talking points.


#3

That has to be one of the worst, illogical posts I've read on any message board ever.


#4

Well thought out question. I am curious to see if you will get a cut and dry response to your QUESTION. Diatribes won't cut it.
We'll see.

Typically, when I confront democrats who say Bush lied about pre-war intellegence; they say BUSH lied. However, when I include the fact that I AGREE with Sen. Clinton, ex-president Bill and Lieberman in that they said the SAME thing as President Bush, they (democratic supporters) somehow don't seem to be able to come up with a reasonable explanation.

Most often, they change the subject or throw out a "straw man" counterquestion to attempt to negate MY guestion. Of course, this "deflection" is an attempt to not answer the direct question. (If they answered honestly, they would have to see the error (at an intellectual level) in their bias and admit the point I am trying to make.)

As a military man, I admit that I do NOT trust MY national security in the hands of liberal demorcrats. I have had enough interaction with their followers to see they(democrats in general and LIBERALS in particular) have NO CLUE about national security.

So, I am reluctantly forced to rethink and live by the phrase.."A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."!!!

Don


#5

I see fireworks in our future. This isn't just beating a dead horse, this is eviscerating it...


#6

Let me guess.

The US is an inch away from destruction and only the removal of personal rights and freedoms will save it.

A free and open society has its risks. Perhaps the populace is more willing to accept some risks, such as nail clippers on airplanes, than are the current knee-jerking authorities?


#7

LOL

no other remarks.


#8

Here's one for the Irishman: "Would you bet your life on the Dems? Would you trust your life with them?"

If we vote for guys like Igor (aka Al Gore) or Hillary, would you trust your life to them?


#9

Singram,

While I don't find your post 'illogical', your question has essentially been hashed out thousands of times in various threads in this political forum.

You do well to do a basic search on the subject here. You will have more than enough to read.


#10

I am not a Democrat and have NEVER once claimed to be. I have never written that "Bush lied". You are an idiot. I want you to find my posts and quote them specifically. You might soon find that you have no argument without putting things in my mouth to create one.

Hate Bush? Where have I ever written that I hate Bush? Your post was the dumbest one I have seen on this board. You sound like a Conservative candidate's campaign poster. The only thing you are lacking is a nice little poster of Bush smiling with a subheading of "Vote for me".

Now, you run along and find those specific quotes of mine and then we can have a real discussion.

What is even more pathetic...is that there are more like you.


#11

There are over 2,000 men who put their life on the line for this war. Many did so ill equipped with needed armor for tanks or themselves. I wonder if you would have asked them if they put their lives in the hands of Conservatives?

I put my life in no one's hands. Anyone who would claim they would put their life in the hands of any particular political party is insane. But then, you are the one who wrote this post so there is no surprise there.


#12

I believe that we all, insome form or another and especially the troops, put our lives in the hands of our political process. We trust that our process will generally put us on the best course.


#13

Do I believe we are on the best course now? I don't. I don't expect anyone to be perfect, but I see many faults with the expansion of government power and the apparent disregard for the working class. If anyone is walking around making the claim that they trust "republicans" with their life, they need intense mentally focused medical treatment.


#14

But, but, they hate you for your freedom right?

Thank God Bush is quickly taking your freedom away. So we can expect to live in peace with each other very soon.


#15

While I am known to defend the Iraq war and Bush's decision to invade, there are many issues I think Bush has dropped the ball on. Federal spending and immigration being a couple of the biggies. It is my hope that, through the political process that this country will put into position a fiscally responsible, socially liberal, tax cutter president who believes in the power of the states.

We'll see.


#16

LMFAO!


#17

Here's a reasonable explanation. I can't speak to the truthlfulness of all Clinton's statements and actions about terrorism and international issues WHILE he was president. It was a different time, and these weren't such hot-button issues. He wasn't so under the microscope. But post-911, Bush Based his actions on insufficient, shoddy intelligence. And I believe it was because he already had an agenda and would have demanded more rigorous examination and considereed things more carefully if he didn't. Congress doesn't have the same access to intelligence as the president.

In a crucial time such as post-911 when the president presents intelligence as sufficient and informs Congress that there is a strong tie to Al Quaeda and that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and he articulates plans based on this, the must reasonably take him at his world. And that goes for both parties in Congress. They don't have the same kind of access to determine say, 'Hey, now. Hold on. This conclusion doesn't seem warranted based on the intel we [dont] have.' Perhaps after the 911 commission and some restructing, there is better congressional oversight and Congress will have more access to information and the intelligence community. I have to read the book when I get a chance.


#18

I trust them more than the Republicans. Not because their ideas or agenda is better. As far as I can tell, they have no agenda, ideas, or policy that they have voiced. But Republicans have an agenda and ulterior motives, and they use rhetoric and trumped up reasoning instead of the true mottivations (which in some cases I have been fine with) to 'sell it' to the American people.

I don't know what I would do next election. I am hoping the Democrats will actually articulate some policies. But I think I would vote for a do-nothing, ineffectual party than a Republican in the vein of BUsh with policies I see as counterproductive and poor both internationally and domestically. Fortunately, I do think there are Republicans that aren't cut from the same cloth as Bush and have a better approach to foreign and domestic issues. I will have to evaluate carefully who both sides choose to run and what they put as the election draws closer.


#19

Hillary Clinton is not only smarter than the president, she also has more balls and never was an alcoholic or cocain addict that was bailed out by daddy and his friends whenever necessary.

Does that answer your question?

The answer is obviously no, no sane person would trust any of them with their life BUT if you had to choose...


#20

Singram,

Welcome to the forum!!!

I'll give you some free advice: Don't expect many reasonable answers to your question.

Many of the people who are calling you "ignorant" and "idiotic" are trully pathetic.

Imagine trying to defend this position: Bush lied even though my party's leaders agreed with him at the time of the invasion.

Further, imagine not being intelligent enough to realize the hypocrisy involved?

Finally, imagine doing this little tap dance in the middle of a shooting war? Imagine not being able to figure out that people who have their lives on the lines may be reading your little diatribes?

Ask yourself: Who is idiotic?

You could be like me and take their little put downs and run with it: ALL REPUBLICANS ARE CORRECT AND ALL dEMOCRATS ARE WRONG ON EVERY ISSUE!!!

RAH!!! RAH!!! RAH!!!

JeffR