T Nation

Problems with Soy

Apparently anything soy increases estrogen and decreases testosterone…which leads to man boobs. Not cool at all. I received a 24 box of Cliff bars and the first 3 ingredients are soy based, I love MHP up your mass and power pak pudding…both leading proteins are soy. Is it best to avoid soy as much as possible?

I’m trying to make it seem like I ate the Cliff bars and give them away and I went through 2 tubs of up your mass and noticed some chest fat also when I didn’t change my diet or workout.

Soy bad. Don’t eat.





This last one has info about soy lecithin and soy phospholipid

I figured. My mom,dad,and brother are saying it’s stupid that I avoid soy all the time. No more up your mass, cliff bars, or plastic. Another question, when I buy a protein what are the main sources of protein I should be looking for? I looked at Met Rx Size Up and it seemed good. First ones being whey protein isolate, casein, and egg white protein. That’s the good stuff right?

There’s a great deal of variation in quality among different products of the same type. Any of the types you name can be good or can be poor, depending on the individual product.

A large part of it will be personal experience. As an example, there’s a very good company mostly known for selling strength training equipment but which also carried a protein, saying you didn’t need fancy protein: just plain protein was fine. It was a basic casein.

Now, I have I think better digestion than most. But aside from not dissolving well and having a particle feel in the mouth, it gave me gas and discomfort. It just didn’t suit me. But unless they made up their customer testimonies which I don’t think they did, some customers loved the stuff. It was cheap, and if they got good results for them personally, why should anyone say they shouldn’t buy it?

But if you had the same results as I did, then it wouldn’t be a good protein for you.

Similarly, you can simply try proteins that have a reputation for high quality as well as some cheaper things and see what you experience for yourself.

A possible area for concern with that though it is that for some products it’s highly questionable that the protein is actually the material claimed on the label. I base this on the bulk price of whey proteins, in quantities such as 10,000 lb at a time. There’s simply no way that product can be selling at a local retail store for essentially the same amount as the wholesale price of even the cheapest actual WPC plus packaging cost. Yet we do see this type of pricing.

Advertising has to be covered, at least some overhead has to be covered, the retail store is going to insist on making a retail profit, etc. The only way it can be explained is if the product is not in fact whey protein, or at least largely not whey protein. I am not saying this must be the case with all products found retail, I’m sure it’s not. However, when substituting protein types can cut cost in half or less, and where retail prices just don’t make sense if the material were whey protein, there’s at least reason to suspect.

It may be that some stuff that’s plausibly priced for actually being whey protein will suit you personally just fine.

As a general rule, a buyer doesn’t get more than he pays for. The cheap stuff tends to be just that.

It’s not just the estrogen. It has trypsin inhibiters that block protein absorbtion,goitergens that affect the thyroid and it also screws up mineral absorbtion. Nasty stuff. And then you have idiots like Dr. Oz,who mainstream America believes,saying it’s great :frowning:

Also very much worth reading, Soy: What’s the Big Deal?:
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/most_recent/soy_whats_the_big_deal

Dr. Berardi explains some of the over-reaction/misunderstanding about soy. Also has some interesting info from Dr. Kaylaa Daniel, subject of the “Poison Protein” interview Corst linked to above, which clarifies and expands on the issue.

"Unfortunately, rather than understanding the context, after reading one of her books or interviews, most people will take a big step back from soy based foods. However, even Dr. Daniel has been very clear to note that a soy intake similar to that of Asian cultures is healthy and doesn’t pose danger.

Dr. Daniel has also stated that old fashioned soy products such as miso, tempeh, natto, and soy sauce are fine when eaten occasionally."

So basically, soy-based processed “food-like substances” are lousy. Whole food sources of soy offer pretty much no problem.

[quote]I AM INVINCIBLE wrote:
Processed Soy bad. Don’t eat.[/quote]
Fixed for clarification. And I agree, now. :wink:

[quote]magick62d wrote:
It has trypsin inhibiters that block protein absorbtion,goitergens that affect the thyroid and it also screws up mineral absorbtion. Nasty stuff.[/quote]
Egg whites also contain a trypsin inhibitor. Along with the other problematic anti-nutrients in soy, they can be significantly reduced through most cooking and/or fermentation methods, making them less of an issue.

Are these truly concerns for occasional small amounts of soy?

I just got a box of clif bars and they are delicious so I’m disappointed to hear this

I’m not sure, my friends say it’s stupid to complain about small amounts but I’m trying to avoid it 100% and I know it sucks, clif bars are amazing I was all types of pissed off when I found out the main protein is soy

IMO…the issue with cliff bars is the protein to carb. ratio.
The carrot cake ones are great, but cliff bars are a candy bar.