T Nation

Problems with Libido and ED After Thyroid Removal


#1

Hello I'm 27 years old male, height 182cm, weight 86 kg(before problems 82kg), waist 97 cm

Facial/body hair: I have to shave every two/three days I could every day but I have sensitive skin and hurt my self, body hair big on legs, chest, even on top of back, avarage on hands, normal on intimate zone.

Fat and how changed: Now I had more fat on my waist. Before I had less. As I mentioned now my weight is 86 kg, before was 82 kg.

Health conditions/history: I had thyroid removed,beacuse of thoid cancer. Before it my Dick waslike steeland libido was superhuge.Right after removal ED and libido probmles reveal. Now with cancer everything is OK. I've spoke with 3 endocrynologistsand they said that this cancer therapy influence on ED and libido,maybe some times when you have to be few days without thyroid hormones before iodine scan, but it is not usual. With my labtest I've spokewith andrologists andrologistcs, they saidmy balls are OK.They know that my T is low, Free T is also low,but they dont know how to deal with it. Andrologists prescribed me T in capsules, they didn't help (after took them I worse). I had sudden acceleration of metabolism (that days I had even some times morning wood - so maybe something wrong iswith pitiuary).I often have brain fog, I'm moody bitch, I am more fat than before thyroid removal,I don't have morning wood, I dont have suden night erections, I'm social withdrawal beacuse why going out when you cant fuck girl in toilet like you did before, my testes are once big once smaller, I often have days when my only motivation is to solve this fucking problem. Oh, and in april I will have MRI scan beacuse of my brain fogg and small headache ( I dont know is it effect of hormone of balance or pittuary tumor).

Lab testes:

Prolactine: 13,93 ng/ml [4,04-15,2]----earlier in 2013 11,41

Estradiol: 40 pg/ml [7,63-42,60]---------I was making this blood test often and was always between 40-47

FSH: 1,15 mIU/ml [1-14]---------earlier in 2013 2,08

LH: 2,52 mIU/ml [1,7- 8,3]--------earlier in 2013 2,96

Testosterone: 3,61 ng/ml [2,8-8] -----------In 03.2010 was 7.30 !

FT4: 1,43 ng/dl [0,93 - 1.7]

Diet: I'm eating as much as I have to to stabilize weight of 86 kg it's like system, before I ate as much asI have tostabilize 82 kg. I eat regulary 3-4 timesa day. I like eat sweet things like fruits and once a day snickers or mars. I also like to eat vegetables. Also I eat fromone year Vit D 2000 per day, and strong B12 Methylocobalmine.

Traininig: I like swimming 2- 3 days in week. One hour. I do 3 times a week 15 min. burst training.

Test ache:I had test ache once, 12 years ago when somebody kick me there, many doctors looks at this do USG and said no sign, for me noproblemand ache for 12 years.

How have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: I almost don't have them, maybe sometimes, 1-2 per week, when my metabolism work a bit faster, I mentionedabout it earlier.


KSman is Here
KSman is Here
#2

Sorry, I didnt post shit info,cananyone give advice ? Is this couldbe problemwith pitiuary gland refers to my LH/FSH ?


#3

Please read these stickies. They will be informative.

  • advice for new guys, ob open minded to other health issues
  • thyroid basics
    – check your body temperatures
    – if body temperatures are low, your thyroid meds are not strong enough

please post your thyroid labs with ranges, we are interested in:
TSH, fT3, fT4, rt3

fT4 does look good, but it is fT3 that gets the job done. Some have poor T4–>T3 conversion and most are taking only T4 meds

Your estradiol [E2] is very high and that reduces LH/FSH. Some drugs can increase E2 levels by reducing the livers ability to remove estrogens from the blood. List what drugs you are taking and provide lab data that is indicative of liver health [AST/ALT]. You may have to take a drug that reduces E2 by reducing T–>E2 aromatization. The drug anastrozole/Arimidex can be very effective. Suggest 0.5mg/week in EOD divided doses. This may be the key to your problem. The cause of high E2 needs to be determined.

Before you had thyroid cancer, was your thyroid always a bit large? Your neck would have appeared to be thick at that area. Has you been using iodized salt long term? sometimes? never?


#4

Your Estradiol (E2) is way too high. You need to knock that in half. You could try the natural route, but doubt it will bring it down enough. Boron (might also boost T), DIM and calcium d-glucarate would be worth a look if you choose to go that route. You could also add something like formasurge.

Probably need an AI like Anastrozle or Aromasin.

If you get tested after trying this, get Free T and Estradiol for sure. Would also be good to get DHEA-S. Boosting DHEA might help with T. You could try magnesium oil for this, or just supplement DHEA.


#5

I’ve made lab test:

FT3: 2,86 pg/mL [1,71-3,71]

FT4: 1,35 ng/dL [0,70-1,48]

TSH: 0,36 uUI/mL [0,35-4,94]

Estradiol: 41 pg/ml [7,63-42,60]

FSH: 1,06 mIU/ml [1-14]

LH: 1,44 mIU/ml [1,7- 8,3]

rt3- non available

DHEA-SO4 (MADE IN 09.2012 but i suffer the same like as I described in first post): 443,40 ug/dl [211-492]

AST/ALT- always have good blood test with this,even after iodotherapy, but thats my lat reult FROM 09.2012–>

AST: 28 U/I [0-50]
ALT: 16 U/I [0-50]
I forgot to write my last TSH in my first post,was 3,60. I explain you why. Everyday I had to take 175 levothyroxine, I took it with VIT D 2000 and magnesium, but I shouldn’t beacuse they influence on bad absorbtion of T4. Anyway I stoped eating VIT D and magnesium on early mornings, and I came back to TSH near 0,5(TSH suppresion for thyroid cancer).

Anyway I noticed strange thing. The more suppresd my TSH is, the lower are FSH/LH and higher Estradiol results (mention that my first post lab test are with TSH 3,60 and compare results of FSH/LH, Estradiol ). It stinks like shit. I will have MRI in april.

Questions:

+Does Estradiol influence more FSH/LH or FSH/LH influence more Estradiol, for me something is wrong with my pituary, do you have any suggestions ?
+Should I try Arimdrex before MRI ?
+What are Armidrex side effects, long term and short term ?
+My, Testosterone is converted to Estradiol, right ?


#6

KSman: I really dont know does my thyroid was larger than normal. I have some nodules,and one of them was cancerogenic. I’ve never eat iodinized salt. Never really mention what I ate. I know only that raw cross vegetables can be hramful for thyroid. As I mention before I have 27 y old and some of you should know what happened in 1986 in Chernobyl… Please respone to my post which I wrote upside.


#7

How long since your thyroidectomy? You also need to get your SHBG levels tested. Thyroxine will raise your SHBG.


#8

I found my SHBG labtest from 03.2012, I had the same symptoms, as I mention before:

SHBG 13,71 nmol/l [14,50-48,40]


#9

How long ago did you have your thyroid removed?
How long ago was your chemotherapy? Did you get radiation? What Chemo drugs?
What drugs do you take now? Levothyroxine? What dose?

Chronic illness and cancer treatment along thyroid control gone there is no doubt you’re going to experience ED and libido difficulties. Decreased T is a given. The systems you need for a healthy libido and strong erections have taken a major hit. Chemo interferes with MAJOR processes in cellular metabolism. That’s how it combats the uncontrolled growth of cancer. This means things like androgen receptors and many many other necessary molecules won’t be made. I don’t think more T is going to really help that much. If it does, great! But don’t count on it until your cells have returned to baseline and you’ve dialed in the thyroid hormone. The thyroid hormones control the rate of pretty well every metabolic process in every cell.

TRT may be something to look at when you level off but give yourself a break, you’ve been through a lot!


#10

I’ve never had chemo/radiotherapy ! Just iodotherapy. thyroid was removed 6 y ago.


#11

Please respond fully to my prior post, need body temperatures. They are the guide to your tyroid med dosing.

Iodine deficiency increases TSH, over time - high TSH increases thyroid size and promote nodules and they can start to produce thyroid hormones outside of the TSH control loop. One then progresses from hypo to hyper an cancer can occur. Iodine deficiency has this pattern. Note that this effect is very common and you do not need Chernobyl radioactive iodine for this to occur; but both effect together would be a bigger threat.

Your E2 is reducing LH/FSH, you really need to reduce E2. Natural substances will not get this done.

Arimidex before MRI? If there is an adinoma that is lowering LH/FSH, Arimidex could mask the effects of the MRI. If your prolactin levels were elevated, that would justify a MRI. Prolactin=14 is getting interesting. But non of this explains why E2 would be elevated. Your weight is a major contributor to E2 levels. Your thyroid function is a major factor in weight gain/loss.


#12

After woke up, I put mercurial thermometer to mouth,

result is: 96.8F (36,2 C)

What to do?


#13

High estrogen (on bloodwork or in the receptors) can elevate TSH and also interfere with T4 -> T3 and also RT3.
Woman when they get pregnant or start a estrogen replacement they start taking T4 replacement or they increase their T4 medication if they are already hypothyroid.

I’m writing it because I think people here and in other forums don’t look to this point.


#14

High E2 for a man vs. high E2 for a woman are quite different. The high levels that become positive feedback at the hypothalamus happen at levels that are 3 times more than what is considered too high for a man. At 50-60 men often feel the effects of the high E2 but it it were at levels needed to induce a postive feedback it would be like 130-150. Of course I could very well be wrong since everyone is unique and there’s still too many grey areas of understanding.

Wouldn’t it be nice if they could just experiment like crazy with some clones and figure all this stuff out definitively once and for all?


#15

49%, your body temperatures indicate that you have hypo thyroid function; body temperature is the bottom line.

You might still need some dietary iodine, there is more to that story than thyroid, just an side comment.

fT4 is good, fT3 is a bit weak and fT3 is what gets the job done, T4 is a reservoir for making T3.

There can be couple of things going on.

  • poor T4–T3 conversion in peripheral tissue, so people are this way and note that you are not doing T4–>T3 in your thyroid now, that route is ended.
  • you might also have elevated rT3 blocking the action of what fT3 you have

What to do?

  • you can increase your T4 med and use your body temperature as a guide. You would want to wake up around 97.7 degrees and be at 98.6 degrees in the mid afternoon.
  • get rT3 tested if possible.

Many need a T4+T3 product, there are a few options. Docs and insurance plans can be very stupid about these things.
Lots to read: http://www.remedyspot.com/showthread.php/901287-Re-Re-Gail-s-thyroid-tips


#16

Ksman how supported is the body temperature gauging of thyroid function? I have perhaps symptoms of mild hypERthyroidism, not hypo, such as inability to gain weight (in fact I have to struggle against weight loss, which is a problem because I am very lean), restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, yet I am consistently in the 96s in the morning and the 97s at night.


#17

if a guy has more estrogen than androgen in his receptor (the blood work won’t show it) he will have a higher TSH.
Some when their e2 increase their TSH will increase too. That’s why I don’t think in these cases T4 replacement or Iodine replacement are the answer.


#18

Those labs were done one day before my thyroid was cut off:

FT4 50.00% 1.3 (0.9 - 1.7)] NG/DL

FT3 79.17% 3.9 (2 - 4.4)] PG/ML

TSH: 2.280 uU/ML (0.300 - 4.200)

FT3 is very interesting

but as I read, Estrogens can damage conversion from FT4 to FT3.

So Estradiol may be the cause ?


#19

You don’t have your testosterone and estradiol results do you?
Estrogen as you read can damage the conversion from T4 to T3. But sometimes you can have good testosterone levels, good e2 levels, prolactine, free testosterone etc. And you will still feel bad. But why? What I’m searching is that sometimes our brain receptors for estrogen and androgen may have different results from the bloodwork. For example you can have a good results but you have problems in your receptors. Then your androgen receptors are weak compared to your estrogen receptors.

Then your TSH will be high even with good hormone level.

Woman when they get pregnant their TSH may increase. Woman in TRT replacing estrogen may need to increase their T4 if they are hypothyroid and if they aren’t they will need to start a replacement.

But this is one thing that I’m still searching about. I think it makes more sense than just take T4 or Iodine in normal person. But you got your thyroid removed so you really need T4. You could search for cortisol replacement some people get better with it.


#20

Hello, by the accident I improve my life, and lose or limit some symptoms which I wrote in first post. This is the story:

I bought Vitex, and took 3 pills 10 days. As some people mention in every forum, Vitex raise Estradiol. I think it’s true beacuse I had big symptoms of high estradiol by 3 days. Then in day 4,5 I had nice erection during night. Day 6 - 9 was weak erection during night and morning. Now I have the same erections like day 4-5. I still had (but much weaker headaches).

As I wrote in first post, my body after surgery was very imbalanced. My methabolism vas slow by 5 days, then day 6-7 was super fast, like rabbit on speed.

So Vitex in my case works like hormonal stabilizer (it is described as hormonal stabilizer). I did’nt make any tests beacuse I want to see what will be happening in 3-4 weeks. But I’m feeling much better. My ED are not fully solved, but I can normally function in society. My balls are bigger and stronger.

I still think that my strange methabolism frequncy is due to my pitiuary problem, blood test are similar to scoty41593 who have brain tumor.http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/brain_tumor_thank_you_tnation

I will have MRI in April, result in May.

I thinking about taking again pills of Vitex but I’m afraid of inversion of my old symptoms. I think my FSH ist still low beacuse I do’t have sperm like before operation. At the moment sperm is more liquid. Before operation was like it should be: thick, white, and in big quantities.

Can you tell me more about Vitex ? Would you risk take again 3pill dosage of it ? Please answer, and If you have some question please write.