T Nation

Problems Between Injection Days?


#1

As we all go through the trial and error period of establishing a TRT protocol (considering it ever really ends) most, if not all of us experience the excitement of starting T injections knowing you would most likely feel better than when you went in to see your endo or whatever type of Doctor you use. It is often said by such Doctors that "you have low T, let's give you T injections (or gels but this pertains to injectable testosterone, and that is often it.. Many people seem to get put on 200mg test cyp injections and no AI meds, or estrogen considerations are taken.
(Not all Doctors of course , some know what to do, some..)

We start TRT with high hopes of finally feeling better, more energetic, more sexually active and for some, the possible end to thier libido or ED issues. Only to find yourself feeling great at first and then months later you start to notice some bad sides. I wanted to get some input from people that specifically experience issues that come and go in correlation to injections or injection frequency.

To give the best context in what I'm looking to understand from more people than myself, I'll give an example of something that has me concerned and confused.
For over a year I have been on Test cyp injections weekly at 200mg, I use Aromasin 25mgs ED as an AI for estrogen control.

My testosterone is usually above 1300 ng/dl and my free T around 436 or so, Estradiol between 25-28 and these numbers don't really change when I get labs done, which I do frequently and they're all very consistent. Even though my labs don't show what I know to be High estradiol, and my test is high, I still have ED issues that come and go, libido comes and goes in extremes and opposite ways. Sometimes I feel great and libido is strong, erections are great and I may be this way for a week or a few weeks, sometimes only a day or 2. I cannot tell if it is coming/going with any correlation to my rising and lowering T levels between injections or if it's something unrelated. Another thing that I've noticed for a while now is occasionally I have a swollen feeling and slightly painful prostate, other times it's goes away and I'm feeling great again.

Does anyone else have issues that have been issues for a while but also go away at some point and could possibly be related to your TRT protocol?


#2

[quote]Flimflam123 wrote:
As we all go through the trial and error period of establishing a TRT protocol (considering it ever really ends) most, if not all of us experience the excitement of starting T injections knowing you would most likely feel better than when you went in to see your endo or whatever type of Doctor you use. It is often said by such Doctors that "you have low T, let’s give you T injections (or gels but this pertains to injectable testosterone, and that is often it… Many people seem to get put on 200mg test cyp injections and no AI meds, or estrogen considerations are taken.
(Not all Doctors of course , some know what to do, some…)

We start TRT with high hopes of finally feeling better, more energetic, more sexually active and for some, the possible end to thier libido or ED issues. Only to find yourself feeling great at first and then months later you start to notice some bad sides. I wanted to get some input from people that specifically experience issues that come and go in correlation to injections or injection frequency.

To give the best context in what I’m looking to understand from more people than myself, I’ll give an example of something that has me concerned and confused.
For over a year I have been on Test cyp injections weekly at 200mg, I use Aromasin 25mgs ED as an AI for estrogen control.

My testosterone is usually above 1300 ng/dl and my free T around 436 or so, Estradiol between 25-28 and these numbers don’t really change when I get labs done, which I do frequently and they’re all very consistent. Even though my labs don’t show what I know to be High estradiol, and my test is high, I still have ED issues that come and go, libido comes and goes in extremes and opposite ways. Sometimes I feel great and libido is strong, erections are great and I may be this way for a week or a few weeks, sometimes only a day or 2. I cannot tell if it is coming/going with any correlation to my rising and lowering T levels between injections or if it’s something unrelated. Another thing that I’ve noticed for a while now is occasionally I have a swollen feeling and slightly painful prostate, other times it’s goes away and I’m feeling great again.

Does anyone else have issues that have been issues for a while but also go away at some point and could possibly be related to your TRT protocol? [/quote]

Estradiol at those values is nowhere near high. Many men feel good with E2 below 50, including myself, a family member, and my friends on TRT. Your T value is abnormally high, which I suspect can cause problems.

200 mg is TWICE a standard starting dose of T cyp or enanthate. Why use so much medication? Your doc is OK with being above 1300 on average?

When I used gels, my sex drive was a bit duller, even when my T was normal. But that could have been because I did not use HCG for all those years. HCG has been great in addition to T cyp for sex drive and erections.


#3

Yes, my doctor has been reviewing bloods and keeping the dose at the same strength and frequency. If in range is basically between 400 - 1000 between the two different major lab companies, do you believe the 300+ increase above the high end of “normal top end” for testosterone would be what is giving me the ed problems and fluctuating libido? I would’ve thought that as long as E2 was in check, that my higher than average T level would only be of a benefit. I guess I was wrong there… Thanks for your input my friend. Gels had me feeling horrible and I had no sex drive during that time. If lowering my dose of T cyp would or could improve my health and conditions then I would definitely cut it down.


#4

It seems like I must have a rapid peak and dip in my T levels from injection day to the next. I didn’t think this would be the case given that some people seem to be able to do bi-weekly injections allowing more of a dip to take place. Looks like maybe I need a doctor that can explain how my higher T is the culprit to my issues. Thanks again.


#5

[quote]Flimflam123 wrote:
It seems like I must have a rapid peak and dip in my T levels from injection day to the next. I didn’t think this would be the case given that some people seem to be able to do bi-weekly injections allowing more of a dip to take place. Looks like maybe I need a doctor that can explain how my higher T is the culprit to my issues. Thanks again.[/quote]

For me, 100 mg taken once per week has created no dips in well being or function. I have tested three times with this dose post-mid-week in the 700s to 800s, so I assume that at the beginning of the week, I am SLIGHTLY supranormal.

I am not a doctor, so what I say is purely speculation. Your supranormal T levels MIGHT be causing a problem, which is what supranormal values do: cause problems. Hence the whole reason behind establishing norms (though they can be flawed). I’d be surprised that you have normal hematocrit levels at that high dose of medicine, and if not for an AI, you likely would have a problem with estradiol. Hence why I think most men don’t even need an AI with 100 mg T per week, not to mention I don’t want to take more drugs.

I know I wouldn’t feel like my normal self at 1300. When I was on Androgel, years back, my level went to 1500. I knew something was wrong, went to my doc, and he found this abnormal level. I was temperamental, pissed off, and really hyper. After lowering my dose, I was back to normal in about a week.

But again, I am not a doctor.


#6

Have you ever taken hCG or pregnenolone while on trt? That may be the missing link due to:

Purpose of hCG:

  1. To produce Pregnenolone; hCG activates the p450 side chain cleavage (p450scc) enzyme which converts cholesterol to Pregnenolone.
  2. To produce the precursors for DHEA, Estrogen, Cortisol, Testosterone and DHT…back filling the pathways
  3. For proper and normal brain function
  4. For proper functioning of the testicles
  5. If men ever want to restart
  6. If men ever want to have children
  7. If men don’t want balls that end up in a small mass of useless Collagen
  8. The list goes on…

In short, hCG keeps the testicles functioning in a normal state and supports all three androgen pathways. It prevents pregnenolone deficiency and supporting all our other CHOL pathways and hormones as well.

When a man on a TRT protocol is not on hCG they complain of shrinking testicle and the accompanying pain that goes with it.

But when they start on hCG (because of all the things listed above and more) they all state how much better they feel and the pain associated with their testicular atrophy subsiding and that their testicles feel much better as well.


#7


#8

I would assume your Free T is off the charts, your blood is thick as tar, and your circulation is probably poor due to thick blood. Back down to 100mg week and give it 3 months, and I bet you will feel like your are 16 again. I have found when my TT is between 550-700 my erection quality and libido is great, and I don’t need an AI. E2 stays around 20. More T is not actually better, at least not for extended periods of time. Over norm is bad.


#9

[quote]Jdeck wrote:
I would assume your Free T is off the charts, your blood is thick as tar, and your circulation is probably poor due to thick blood. Back down to 100mg week and give it 3 months, and I bet you will feel like your are 16 again. I have found when my TT is between 550-700 my erection quality and libido is great, and I don’t need an AI. E2 stays around 20. More T is not actually better, at least not for extended periods of time. Over norm is bad. [/quote]

This right here. I believe if some guy has T at 600 or more and estradiol is is in the 40s or below and he feels horrible, something else is at work.


#10

Thanks guys, my last Hematocrit was at 45 but one test I had done a month before that was 49 so I’m going to get it checked out again.
As far as the dosage for my testimate cyp goes, I will back it down, should I drop straight to 100 mg or start with 150g and go down? Probably won’t matter I’m assuming…
Finally, yes I am on hcg at 250 IU 3x per week. Sorry forgot to include that. Everything is from the pharmacy prescribed by my endo just so everyone knows. I will aim for T to be in the 800-1000 range when I recheck in a few months. Thanks guys for your input here!