T Nation

Problem of Humane War

"If you want a shorter rebuilding process, then we’re going to have to wage less humane wars. The enemy ? as well as innocent civilians ? must be bombed into quivering terror. Otherwise, we displace aggression but don’t destroy it.

Americans are weaker for having seen that kind of carnage in World War II. Recall that the Worst Generation was raised by the Greatest Generation. That tells you how awful war is.

The Greatest Generation was so exhausted by the war, it didn’t have the spine to stand up to pot-smoking, draft-dodging hippies occupying administration buildings. But enough about Bill Clinton. If we’re going to have humane wars, they are going to take a little bit longer.

That wouldn’t be so bad, except that it gives fifth columnists more time to demoralize Americans and convince them that we are losing a war in the paramount struggle of our time."

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

I’m beginning to think that Americans are too nice to be the hegemonic power. Of course, idiots will then say how that’s a GOOD thing — like how cities work better when there are no cops.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi
[/quote]

Of course, idiots will then say how that’s a GOOD thing — like how cities work better when there are no cops.[/quote]

I’ll overlook the pathetic Ann Coulter quote.

The problem isn’t with cops. It’s with corrupt cops who put their interests ahead of the public good. A cop who choses the bribery from the Mafia Don over justice because his daughter need braces is a scumbag.

The US is certainly not seeking to stabilize the world or spread democracy. It’s serving its interests.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

Of course, idiots will then say how that’s a GOOD thing — like how cities work better when there are no cops.

I’ll overlook the pathetic Ann Coulter quote.

The problem isn’t with cops. It’s with corrupt cops who put their interests ahead of the public good. A cop who choses the bribery from the Mafia Don over justice because his daughter need braces is a scumbag.

The US is certainly not seeking to stabilize the world or spread democracy. It’s serving its interests.[/quote]

That certainly goes against the historical record. Witness the peaceful republics established in Germany, Japan, South Korea, France, Italy,…all places the USA liberated or conquered. Contrast that with the places where we were pushed out or left: North Korea, South Vietnam (which is getting better), China, North Africa, several countries of South America.

Here’s a more personal ex: My father was a WWII vet. When his company would enter a town, the kids would come running and they were greeted. Even the Germans would not flee. When French or Russian troops came near, ALL people would flee for their lives. What’s the difference?

Americans are too goodhearted and kind to run this shithole world. Wait until the mullahs and Muslims have to take orders from the Chinese! Goodbye Tehran, Mecca, Medina, and so forth. You guys hate America…well, remember these as ‘the good old days’ — the Chinese will run you and it won’t be fun. LOL!!!

“if you want a shorter rebuilding process…” blah blah skip the rest of her inane useless drivel. Here’s an idea for Ann, how about you start with a solid rebuilding PLAN!

Last I checked those things helped a whole lot.

Oh yeah, she needs to re-evaluate who we are fighting against. Slaughtering civilians like cattle really won’t help us. But hey, I am glad she wants to turn our soldiers into heartless murderers.

The most humane thing you can do in a war is end it quickly. Get decisive victory as quickly as possible and get your enemy to the surrender table. Dragging out wars because of selectiveness only drags them out longer and more people die in the end. I hate war, but if you make the decision to fight one. Fight one to win, not filibuster and hope the enemy gets tired of fighting.

[quote]Ren wrote:
“if you want a shorter rebuilding process…” blah blah skip the rest of her inane useless drivel. Here’s an idea for Ann, how about you start with a solid rebuilding PLAN!

Last I checked those things helped a whole lot.

Oh yeah, she needs to re-evaluate who we are fighting against. Slaughtering civilians like cattle really won’t help us. But hey, I am glad she wants to turn our soldiers into heartless murderers.[/quote]

I think what she is saying is that, it takes more time, and costs more to wage a war that distinguishes enemies from civilians, and spares the civilians, and that her only problem with that is the fact that liberals are using that increased time to complain and demoralize the rest of America. She in no way shape or form condoned heartless killing, she merely stated that is the only other alternative, to a humane war.

And of course the US is serving its own intrest, thats the job of a government duh! I want my government looking out for me first and then everyone else. Is that selfish, hardly. I am perfectly well capable of deciding when I should sacrifice something of my own to help someone else. I’ll be damned if someone else decides I should be less well off for the sake of someone who does not pay taxes ( Which the government to some degree already has done). Not only that but the government can’t decide that whole of its population should suffer for some people over seas. A government based on freedom just should not have that authority. Our government should make every decision with America as the benefactor.

So in the hypothetical situation that we do stabilize Iraq, I would not be surprised if the Iraqi government sells us oil for a cheaper price. In reality if that is the plan we are already paying a stupidly high price for that oil right now.

Have you seen how the people in Iraq live? They could benefit from a better economy. Which would allow schools and better education. Eventually that would lead to a strong ally for democracy in the future. Also better educated Iraqis would be produced which would help on technology fore front.

Right now some people in Iraq search for metal debris from the war, so they can sell it for money. So you have some 10 year old kid digging up a missle to sell for food.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
The most humane thing you can do in a war is end it quickly. Get decisive victory as quickly as possible and get your enemy to the surrender table. Dragging out wars because of selectiveness only drags them out longer and more people die in the end. I hate war, but if you make the decision to fight one. Fight one to win, not filibuster and hope the enemy gets tired of fighting.[/quote]

Heh alot of people are already pissed off because of the Humane war. What do you think would happen if we just ran over Iraq, flew in a bunch of american families, and put mc donalds up every where.

[quote]SwampThing wrote:

Heh alot of people are already pissed off because of the Humane war. What do you think would happen if we just ran over Iraq, flew in a bunch of american families, and put mc donalds up every where.
[/quote]

I’d say that most people are pissed that we are still fighting this stupid war. That is why the drumbeats of capitulation and sounding. People just want it over, as do I. However, leaving it as is would be a disaster for everybody and everybody knows it.

[quote]SwampThing wrote:
And of course the US is serving its own intrest, thats the job of a government duh! I want my government looking out for me first and then everyone else. Is that selfish, hardly.[/quote]

You have one weird definiton of what selfish is.

You also assume that your government gives a rat’s ass about you or your well being. You’re not any safer than before the war (matter of fact, a lot more people are after you than before). Here’s something you might have missed; Corporations are the only ones benefiting from the war.

Check out the guns-to-caviar index!

[quote]lixy wrote:
The US is certainly not seeking to stabilize the world or spread democracy. It’s serving its interests.
[/quote]

Um, as many democracies as possible in the world is in the interests of US in the long term. They accept less for political reasons and sometimes their foreign policies go astray, but a democratic world serves their economic interests, as well as ours.

[quote]karva wrote:
Um, as many democracies as possible in the world is in the interests of US in the long term. They accept less for political reasons and sometimes their foreign policies go astray, but a democratic world serves their economic interests, as well as ours. [/quote]

Absolutely. However, not all democracies are good democracies for the US. When the elected body is against American policies, they get smacked and toppled. Allende, Ortega, Chavez, Aristide, Sukarno and many more attest to that. Hamas is the most recent examples to date.

[quote]lixy wrote:
karva wrote:
Um, as many democracies as possible in the world is in the interests of US in the long term. They accept less for political reasons and sometimes their foreign policies go astray, but a democratic world serves their economic interests, as well as ours.

Absolutely. However, not all democracies are good democracies for the US. When the elected body is against American policies, they get smacked and toppled. Allende, Ortega, Chavez, Aristide, Sukarno and many more attest to that. Hamas is the most recent examples to date.[/quote]

[quote]lixy wrote:
karva wrote:
Um, as many democracies as possible in the world is in the interests of US in the long term. They accept less for political reasons and sometimes their foreign policies go astray, but a democratic world serves their economic interests, as well as ours.

Absolutely. However, not all democracies are good democracies for the US. When the elected body is against American policies, they get smacked and toppled. Allende, Ortega, Chavez, Aristide, Sukarno and many more attest to that. Hamas is the most recent examples to date.[/quote]

Ok. I understand you. It’s wrong, but it is what powerful nations do, meddle in things. It’s not a particularly american trait.

[quote]lixy wrote:
karva wrote:
Um, as many democracies as possible in the world is in the interests of US in the long term. They accept less for political reasons and sometimes their foreign policies go astray, but a democratic world serves their economic interests, as well as ours.

Absolutely. However, not all democracies are good democracies for the US. When the elected body is against American policies, they get smacked and toppled. Allende, Ortega, Chavez, Aristide, Sukarno and many more attest to that. Hamas is the most recent examples to date.[/quote]

If a murdering thug gets elected, that usually something WORTH opposing. Look at Mugabe in Zimbabwe: he promised free land and a bountiful future for his people. The unemployment rate is 80% and inflation is 1700%.

Barbaric and ignorant people might vote for a thug who promises to rob the rich. They don’t realize they’re being manipulated.

I can’t believe you think we should accept Hamas, btw. They’re simply an assassination squad dressed up as a political party.

I might be totally ignorant in what I’m saying but I think the reason that the Americans and British killed so many German civillians in the bombing campaigns of WWII is because we didn’t have any smart bombs that could zero in on military and industrial targets so we just carpet bombed the place. Also German planes killed many British civillians so they kind of took revenge I guess.

But now we have much more advanced technology and the civillains in Afghanistan and Iraq didn’t support their government the way Germans did so I really think we should do our best to avoid civillian casualties.

At the same time I’m sick of hearing about terrorists taking refuge in mosqes like they’re some kind of safe haven when U.S. planes should be bombing the shit out of them. You think the terrorists would do the same for us if we took refuge in a church, synagoge, or hindu temple, hell no they would storm the place and kill everyone inside then burn the place down.

And I heard that way back Ann Coulter totally disrespected a Vietnam Vet who didn’t agree with her views on landmines and she said something like “no wonder you guys lost” or something like that.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Americans are too goodhearted and kind to run this shithole world. Wait until the mullahs and Muslims have to take orders from the Chinese! Goodbye Tehran, Mecca, Medina, and so forth. You guys hate America…well, remember these as ‘the good old days’ — the Chinese will run you and it won’t be fun. LOL!!!

[/quote]

One thing for sure if the Chinese get into a war with Iran or whoever they’re not going to hold anything back. They’re not going to give a shit if the terrorists run for cover inside a mosque and they’re certainly not going to give a shit what the rest of the world thinks about their war.

[quote]karva wrote:
lixy wrote:
The US is certainly not seeking to stabilize the world or spread democracy. It’s serving its interests.

Um, as many democracies as possible in the world is in the interests of US in the long term. They accept less for political reasons and sometimes their foreign policies go astray, but a democratic world serves their economic interests, as well as ours. [/quote]

So when do we spread democracy to Saudi Arabia?

In the words of William Tecumseh Sherman:

?War is cruelty. There’s no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.?

?Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster?

'Nuff said

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Americans are too goodhearted and kind to run this shithole world. Wait until the mullahs and Muslims have to take orders from the Chinese! Goodbye Tehran, Mecca, Medina, and so forth. You guys hate America…well, remember these as ‘the good old days’ — the Chinese will run you and it won’t be fun. LOL!!!

One thing for sure if the Chinese get into a war with Iran or whoever they’re not going to hold anything back. They’re not going to give a shit if the terrorists run for cover inside a mosque and they’re certainly not going to give a shit what the rest of the world thinks about their war. [/quote]

My daughter is Chinese (adopted) and I’ve read a lot about their history and culture. They are some of the noblest and finest people with an incredible history — and they can be some of the most ruthless SOBs imaginable. For ex, read especially about how they got rid of their drug dealers — they simply shot them all.

The Muslims are going to miss us.

[quote]Ren wrote:

So when do we spread democracy to Saudi Arabia?[/quote]

We won’t because a lot of the people there actually support Al-Queada. Just like Pakistan. I would like to see these countries become democratic but not if it puts American lives in danger. Sorry if that sounds a little selfish but we’re obviously going to put our best intrests first and there is nothing wrong with it. It’s survival.