T Nation

Pro-peace crusaders...where are they now?

Isn’t it strange that all those flaming peace-lovers and peace-crusaders are all of the sudden silent and nowhere to be seen (well, at least, mediatically speaking)?

It just confirms what I thought of them: REACTIVE posers who live through causes for the spotlight. In short, parasites. Do you hear from them DOING something CONCRETE for their ‘cause’ nowadays? Noooo. F’in inconsequent (liars).

Like the system, they change form (causes), but they remain. I guess it is a necessary cancer of society that comes along with freedom. It cannot be cleansed precisely because of this freedom.

and what, pray tell, have you been doing for your cause?

The only ‘cause’ that I have is the exposition of cold, hard, unvarnished facts. In other words: truth based on facts and reality and logic. In a world of ‘ad hominem’, there is not enough impartial truth. Any improvement will always be welcome.

In the ‘peace’ example, it’s very much like lotto winners or stock investors: they only speak when the tide is on their side. Never hear from them otherwise. Mediatic flash in the pan rating: 100% Realism rating: very well below that.

Fairness and ‘restoring the balance’ dictates that we must look at the total behavior of any group, which, in this case, is their classic ‘inexistence’ in parasitable world events. That is my point. Media time is one thing, it looks ‘good’. Its consistency must be verified on a far longer basis. In my view, pro-peace does not walk it’s talk.

Many times in my life have I evolved in my thinking because of other’s willingness to call shit by it’s real name. I return to favor. If it helps at least one person’s thinking evolve, it’s served it’s purpose.

I recognize the value of your ‘finger pointing will make me respond’ reply. You can challenge me on A point if you want, but it won’t change THE (initial)point. I know your tactic. Sorry for you, finger pointing does not change facts or the reality, specially on a global scale.

One interesting fact about many (not all of course) protesters. They do it as a social life. One week it’s an anti-war protest, the next is anti-fur, then it’s an environment related one after that. It’s a sort of “hobby” for many, especially those whose politics lean to the left.

 Fred, say, where exactly are you from again?

 'mangez de mon fromage, garcon de boeuf'

 Need I say more.

diesel, I’m sorry, but you’re just too funny :wink:

What the fuck is that ‘Eat my cheese, son of a bull’? Never heard that one, and I’m bilingual…

The ‘peaceniks’ don’t have to do anything for their cause. The ‘warmongers,’ since they are the ones advocating violence, need to have a pretty strong case for their cause because nobody knows what will happen when one country (or person) attacks another. That’s why sane people don’t resort to violence unless there is absolutely no other viable alternative.

 Both stances have to make their stand.

 I know if some idiot threatens world safety and peace with nukes and I want us to take him out. You better have a damn good case if you want to convince us not to.

SO your saying that those who want peace are a cancer of society?
Don’t know where to begin attacking the complete stupidity of this line of thinking, and frankly probably nobody will change your mind anyway - short of having your family killed by a bomb (nobody sane could wish such a thing).

Maybe the media aren’t showing peace marches now because the was is “over”. Rest assured that those involved do still work for their causes- but the media is too busy focusing on the Peterson trial now. and the next distraction?

 Kuri: 'Don't know where to begin attacking the complete stupidity of this line of thinking, and frankly probably nobody will change your mind anyway - short of having your family killed by a bomb'

 Thank you for the warm wishes, but let me help you.

 What peace will there be for our grandsons, mine and yours, once we've allowed Saddam, Kim Jong, and the likes to thrive? They're like weeds - once they grow, you cant seem to get rid of them. They're sort of like Midas - except with every touch everybody turns into another one of them instead of into gold.

 Once these people are allowed to thrive, what they can do will be limited only by their own will and restraint, which is nil. North Korea in particular worries me because in their state of poverty, theyd have a very big incentive to conquer other countries and get out of their misery. You know Kim Jong is that insane. So tell me, what will stop him if he has what is now one of the biggest military forces in the world, with posiibly one of the biggest (if not the biggest) special operations forces; and nukes? Just give him a good air force and some good up to date armor and he's good to go.

 Iraq has already attempted Kuwaiit. After they blatantly disregarded UN policies for 10 years they lost our trust. Now we found out they were pursuing programs of weapons of mass destruction. Tell me, whats to stop these guys once they have the power to blackmail the world? You know they want a piece of other countries such as Kuwaiit, because theyve already tried it before.

 So this is why we do what we do - because if we dont, and nobody else does, then we have no power to ensure that our future generations will live in freedom, safety and peace as we do today in the US.

 You, on the other hand, seem to suggest the way to achieve and secure this peace is to do nothing, and wait until we get a rude wake-up call as we did on 9/11. This my friend, is what allowed 9/11. This, is what will ensure others will be able to repeat 9/11 and harm our future generations, some of whom may be your own sons or grandsons/daughters.

 What we are doing today is this: we're ensuring our brothers and sisters in the US and abroad wont have to go through what the close relatives of those who died in 9/11 went through. We're ensuring world peace, safety, prosperity for generations to come, even if in the short term we'll see through times of conflict as we did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 In the long run the result will be this: that those who today have the resources and the will to harm innocent civilians, have their resources cut off to them like a snake's tail and be persecuted - everysingle one of them. And we are seeing to it every day; 
 , that Countries who possess the will and resources to damage international safety, peace and prosperity, and demonstrate an intention to do so, will be held accountable TODAY, not tomorrow. That's how we ensure tomorrow's peace and prosperity, by cutting the snake today;
 , that those who are in the process of forming terrorist groups or evil regimes will be dissuaded from doing so by the actions we do today - or face severe retaliation, which they are already familiar with.
  1. 9/11 was allowed to happen. Just about every intelligence agency in the world got warnings during 2001 of an imminent attack in Sept, but the Bush gov’t ignored it. Why did it take only 29mins for fighter jets to intercept Payne Stewart’s private jet when it went off course, but on 9/11 fighter jets weren’t scrambled to intercept the jet that hit the Pentagon until 90mins AFTER the WTC was hit? & isn’t Andrews Air Force Base only 10 miles from the Pentagon? Also, who has benifitted from that crime? I’d say the weapons industry, the Bush government & the oil industry. Maybe they played a role? I don’t know. They seem to have gotten lots of support at home for their imperialist ambitions in Central Asia though. Wait until Michael Moore’s next film comes out for more details.
  2. The people in Kuwait & Iran (both previously invaded by Iraq) weren’t afraid of Iraq, so they must have known that Iraq wasn’t a threat. I read in another newspaper article that the people in South Korea are more afraid of the United States than North Korea. That’s interesting, that a country that borders such a ‘threat’ isn’t threatened by it.
    PS it’s funny how you people think Korea is in such poverty when unemployment is at an 8-yr high & Bush has no intentions of doing anything about it. Bonjour! :slight_smile:

Stupidest thread ever? “Where are the war protestors?”

The war is over, genius. SHEER BRILLIANCE.

Hey, where are those weapons of mass destruction? Since we’ve been spying on Iraq and monitoring them for at least the entire pre-war build-up, please don’t tell me they’ve all been “moved” because we would have seen that happen.

Just because we “won” the war doesn’t mean it was right, let alone worth spending 80 billion dollars for. Everyone knew we were going to win the war, because Iraq wasn’t a threat, their army was decimated by the first Gulf War and it wasn’t jack shit back then, either.

But I guess all those Iraqis we killed are free, and that makes it all worth while.

Monsieur Quebec…First of all, I think you have a typo in your name. Shouldn’t it be MonsiEur Quebec instead of MonsiOur Quebec?

Diesel pretty much resumed what I was going to say.

Call me old fashioned, but I’d return to an eye-for-an-eye justice system tomorrow. Combine that with the right to bear arms anytime, and you’d have many more people thinking before talking and/or acting stupid. Legalized dueling would be a welcome addition too. Dream on eh?

It’s very much like the ‘kids making fun of the chained Bid Dane’. They poke fun at him as long as he can’t attack back (which is very much like people’s options in the current law system - crooks get it easier than those who rightfully defend themselves). But, lo and behold, look at the same kids shut up and be respectful (if not run away) when they can poke the same dog but he can reply. Same people, same dog, different liberties of action, different result : RESPECT. You’ll probably have a mommy cry out his child got bitten once in a while and he did nothing (yeah right, how can you be sure of that eh?..and what the hell was the parent doing when leaving a child free if the child has not enough common sense to approach unknown animals, eh?), but (most probable scenario) she will never admit what her kid did to get it. Bring on the victimhood mentality. BARF!

Now I hear you coming with all your ‘more guns = more killing’ argument. Background noise VS Long-term trend. Short term, maybe. But if you live for the short term that’s your choice. I am sure, giving every INDIVIDUAL a right to fight-back, you’d have far more citizens respect their kin (long-term trend).

Now, who would be afraid of this option? Probably those have a tendency at start to not respect others. Face it. If you know I can send you six feet under when you try something that goes against my civil rights, and you are sane, why would this policy bother you? You may be bothered by a ‘crazy’ who’d do a stupid thing, but with everybody gunning back, he’ll wind up very much dead and the long-term genepool will be more clean. In short, genepool quality control. Killings and crime will always be there. Just need to weed it at the root and punish it accordingly. Criminals act, we respond. Simple, eh? Thank you very much!

Lumpy…come on. You’re telling us that pro-peace have no work left to do? Yeah right…

Last time I checked it out, the world was not 100% democratic. So your pro-peace guys surely have some work left to do. Large numbers imply at least one dictator in force somewhere. Now, there’s ‘work’ for your pro-peace guys…

Since their is obviously conflict somewhere, how come there’s no air-time for all of these pro-peace talkers now? Why no marches?

Just proves what was told earlier here…it’s not ‘in’, it’s not the flavor of the week, eh? For pro-peace militants, they sure are picky…

Where to begin…
oh yeah, where dem darn protesters done git to?.. oh yeah, no war going on. Forgot that one lil point.

As for 9/11 - so attacking Iraq really has nailed down Al Quaeda hasn’t it? Saddam was ready to stroll right up to our border with all his WMDs wasn’t he? Maybe thats why they can’t find em out in the sand. Lets search Castro’s house, thats it!! and on and on… the cycle of violence…

Wouldn’t ita been cool if the US didn’t train Bin Laden & the Taliban back during the USSR/Afghan war?

Arming Saddam to get rid of Iran sure worked wonders too, look at the democratic paradise Iran became! and the cycle goes on…

or maybe…just maybe… the US really isn’t seeking stability in the region… think it’d hurt US oil corporations if the Arab nations banded together & formed a strong tight oil front? naah, thats just gibberish peacenik talk.

Well, at least the Bush/Cheney major contributors stand to make a few billion in the coming yr from the liberation of all that oi…errr… Iragis. That sure will help come campaign time, cause jeez, the domestic economic strategy isn’t working out too well.

Seems to me if the goal is to really crack down on Al Quaeda the concentration would be on Yemen, Somalia, S Arabia etc… but you should already know this arguement.

Senior Diesel,
True, North Korea is a bad situation. But you know what they want? food and oil. They are not threatening to invade anyone- only have threatened to level Seoul if attacked, NOT the same thing. the only economy they have is generated by selling weapons. Take away the incentive to do that and they will be easier to deal with, then let S Korea and their other neighbors work to remedy the situation.
Why are S Koreans and others in Asia more frightened by the US (when they can be hit by Kim’s missles & the US can’t) ?? Because they know that the cowboys brining the cavalry do nothing but kick up shit, & they will be left with a mighty big shit heap.

I live in Asia- i see this in the news EVERYDAY and get a different perspective, so believe it that nobody here wants war. They KNOW N. Korea isn’t going to attack unless they are made to feel theres no way out, no way to solve it diplomatically. and the LAST thing they want is for the US to attack, which brings bloodshed right into their pachinko parlor.
People here remember WWII VERY well. they remember their homes being bombed to rubble & family burned in front of their eyes.
And they’d rather not go thru it again because Bush has a bad case of the Napolean syndrome.

to continue a thought.
(BTW Diesel, i wished for NOBODY to be bombed- you took my quote out of context. please reread)

A friend of mine here in Japan recently passed away- he was a Zero Ace fighter pilot in the Japanese Navy during WWII, & an instructor to the kamikaze (no joke). He taught Kendo (sword fighting), and even at 75 was one tough hombre. He was also a nationally recognized master of calligraphy and poetry, and practiced the art of tea.

an incredibly dignified man who taught me more through a few words over tea than yrs of Grad school.

and he HATED war more than anyone I’ve ever met. He always said how stupid the imperialist Jpn Govt. was at the time, and was glad Japan lost the war. After the war he realized how foolish it is to get caught up in illusions of power, and how easy it is to be blinded by nationalism and propaganda.

He did not have thoughts of revenge, even when the US had killed ALL of his friends and most of his family.
He learned what those emotions, if guided by ego and hate lead to.

that is true strength my friend.
The weak will choose violence, while those who have wisdom and strength pursue peace

I can only hope to achieve such strength and grace.

i love all this ‘the weak choose violence’ crap.

actions speak louder than words.

in todays world of idiocy, dealing with ppl on a level of diplomacy sometimes fails. and one must stand up for what is right, or be victimized until he does stand up.

Diplomacy may always work in some twisted version of reality where everyone agrees, but that aint this world, bud. when months of talking break down and get nowhere, its time to change strategies.

Why would we try something over and over again if it has been proven not to work? Precedent anyone? Case in point- months upon months of talking hasnt worked, what should we do? OOOH OOH! Lets try MORE TALKING! more of the very thing that isnt working! There is genius for ya…

sorry for the tone, but crap like that just gets under my skin.

Bringing up past mistakes like training OBL or giving weapons to Saddam is pointless. Unlike a dictatorship the US has a regime change every 4 to 8 years. Reagan was far different than Clinton who was far different than Nixon. What seemed expedient at the time may not have played out so well in the long run. Hopefully we have learned from those mistakes.

The war is over but the Iraqis aren’t living in the lap of luxury. Where are the peaceniks now when they can do something positive? Are there concerts to collect aid for the people of Iraq? You know most of those Hollywood types that were all over the news could fill a cargo container a week with medical supplies and pay to have them shipped without damaging their weekly budget. Are they doing anything? I don’t think so.

It’s easy to wave the flag, it also easy to paint a sign and block traffic. I guess it’s too much trouble to do anything constructive.

Dan C wrote: Last time I checked it out, the world was not 100% democratic. So your pro-peace guys surely have some work left to do. Large numbers imply at least one dictator in force somewhere. Now, there’s ‘work’ for your pro-peace guys…

Why does the world have to be 100% democratic to be peaceful?

There’s some fearfully fucked up democracies out there doing more harm to the world than some “non-democracies”

Guess you’d better invade Jordan, Saudi Arabia etc, they’re not democracies.

A dictator doesn’t necessarily have to be bad.