97.0 degrees upon waking
Bloodwork update from 1/23/2013 -
Thyroid hormones:
T4 (Thyroxine), total - 6.9 [4.5-12] range
Free T4 Index (T7) - 2.2 [1.4-3.8] range
T4, Free - 1.2 [0.8-1.8] range
T3, Free - 3.1 [2.3-4.2] range
T3, Total - 95 [76-181] range
T3 uptake - 32 [22-35%] range
Estradiol, ultrasensitive - 31 range <29 this was when i went from .1 mg anastrozole daily to every other day. im back on .1 mg daily…i may need a higher dose?
IGF I, LC/MS 226 [63-373] range
Z score (male) 0.7 [-2 to +2]range
CBC (H/H, RBC, Indices, WBC, PLT):
White blood cell count 5.3 [3.8-10.8]
red blood cell count 5.30 [4.2-5.8]
hemoglobin 16.9 [13.2-17.1]
hematocrit 49.8 [38.5-50%]
MCV 94 [80-100]
MCH 31.9 [27-33]
MCHC 33.9 [32-36]
RDW 12.6 [11-15%]
platelet count 182 [140-400]
prolactin 5 [2.0-18.0]
testosterone, total 734 [250-1100]
[quote]KSman wrote:
Iodine is iodine, does not matter much what the form is.
If you take iodine and your temperatures are better, this is an easy fix. But we really need to have fT3, fT4 data and your body temps justify that.
[/quote]
I would say this maybe isn’t true. I have read that the iodine/iodide mixture is better iodide is supporting the thyroid more and the iodine for the rest of the body?? I am no expert but just had very bad experience with 50 mg potassium iodide and my friend ended up in the hospital. I would try idoral or logals if I was going to try anything!! One should be careful and raise the dose slowly. Vit d is critical for optimum vitality. I also have read over and over that high vit d = high T!! Not the cure all for everyone as their could be other problems but very important…
[quote]coulrophobia wrote:
Bloodwork update from 1/23/2013 -
Thyroid hormones:
T4 (Thyroxine), total - 6.9 [4.5-12] range
Free T4 Index (T7) - 2.2 [1.4-3.8] range
T4, Free - 1.2 [0.8-1.8] range
T3, Free - 3.1 [2.3-4.2] range
T3, Total - 95 [76-181] range
T3 uptake - 32 [22-35%] range
Estradiol, ultrasensitive - 31 range <29 this was when i went from .1 mg anastrozole daily to every other day. im back on .1 mg daily…i may need a higher dose?
IGF I, LC/MS 226 [63-373] range
Z score (male) 0.7 [-2 to +2]range
CBC (H/H, RBC, Indices, WBC, PLT):
White blood cell count 5.3 [3.8-10.8]
red blood cell count 5.30 [4.2-5.8]
hemoglobin 16.9 [13.2-17.1]
hematocrit 49.8 [38.5-50%]
MCV 94 [80-100]
MCH 31.9 [27-33]
MCHC 33.9 [32-36]
RDW 12.6 [11-15%]
platelet count 182 [140-400]
prolactin 5 [2.0-18.0]
testosterone, total 734 [250-1100]
[/quote]
Ksman,
Could I please get your thoughts on this lab work sir? I am going to get more blood drawn today.
Thyroid hormones all look a bit low.
Taking IR now?
Body temps still low?
E2=31 with .1mg EOD. To get near E2-22pg/ml, new dose would be 31/22 * .1mg/EOD. Hard to get then with caps/tablets. This is were a liquid has an advantage as your dose increment is by the drop.
IW: If potassium iodide was the problem that you suspect, you would not be the first to report those issues.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Thyroid hormones all look a bit low.
Taking IR now?
Body temps still low?
E2=31 with .1mg EOD. To get near E2-22pg/ml, new dose would be 31/22 * .1mg/EOD. Hard to get then with caps/tablets. This is were a liquid has an advantage as your dose increment is by the drop.
IW: If potassium iodide was the problem that you suspect, you would not be the first to report those issues.
[/quote]
I feel like I get cold too easy sometimes. I have decreased sensitivity during sex, low libido, brain fog, I get emotional easy, I get angry way too easy, I have no desire to be social, I get anxiety, I do not get restful quality sleep, I do not feel “strong, full of vitality, and manly” No morning wood, no nocturnal erections. my gums are still receding and hurting everyday. i tried the vit c, b, fish oil, did not help unfortunately.
so my thyroid does look low? My doctor said everything looks fine. I have gone from needing sex 2-4 times a day to maybe wanting it once a week? I should at least at the VERY least want it daily, or every other day.
I am not taking the IR. i need to measure my body temps again but I feel EXACTLY the way I did when I was measuring low temps to begin with.I started back on .1mg of anastrazole everyday 3 days ago.
my question on my call to action: what would you do right now if you were me sitting here typing this?
I am assuming buy and try the IR? if so, what is it? what dose should I buy? how much should I take daily and should I take it on food or not? any long term side effects?
if not this, what do you recommend?
Thank you KSMAN!!
The details that you want are in the thyroid basics sticky. You can purchase 12.5mg iodoral, google that. Some find strong iodine drops in local health food shops. The cost is small compared to medical/lab options.
How is blood pressure?
Ever donate blood? If you do and feel better afterwards, that is indicating that your blood has not been flowing well, asprin may be helpful.
Hematocrit is almost 50%
hemoglobin is almost upper range
- Are you eating iron fortified breads or cereals?
You have some hypo T symptoms or elevated T issues, perhaps compounded by thyroid and hematocrit
Your TT and FT implies low SHBG
“”"
Conditions associated with high or low levels
SHBG levels are decreased by androgens, anabolic steroids,[6] polycystic ovary syndrome, hypothyroidism, diabetes, obesity, Cushing’s syndrome, and acromegaly. SHBG levels increase with estrogenic states (oral contraceptives), pregnancy, hyperthyroidism, cirrhosis, anorexia nervosa, and certain drugs. Long-term calorie restriction of more than 50 percent increases SHBG, while lowering free and total testosterone and estradiol. DHEA-S, which lacks affinity for SHBG, is not affected by calorie restriction.[7]
“”"
Was your glocose=102 a fasting result?
If so, you might consider lab work for Glycated hemoglobin - Wikipedia
search potassium iodide. i purchased mine from vitamin shoppe hear in the US. Pure and Simple was the brand. less than $5 for #30 25mg pills. So I can spend $10 to ride at 50mg for a whole month. KSman recommends 50mg to get to 750mg (15 days) and then if temps are good cut down to a maintenance dose assuming you don’t have any stomach upset issues at this dose. Personally, I started at 12.5 for a few days, then 25mg for a couple more, and am now up at 50mg.
In regards to vitamin D, the spine surgeons I used to work with stated d-25-OH levels in anyone north of Atlanta were low and recommended patients start on d3 10,000iu/day EVERY DAY. Lab levels are to be 60+ (I don’t know reference range) and higher is optimal for energy, bone health, and hormone composition
[quote]KSman wrote:
The details that you want are in the thyroid basics sticky. You can purchase 12.5mg iodoral, google that. Some find strong iodine drops in local health food shops. The cost is small compared to medical/lab options.
How is blood pressure?
Ever donate blood? If you do and feel better afterwards, that is indicating that your blood has not been flowing well, asprin may be helpful.
Hematocrit is almost 50%
hemoglobin is almost upper range
- Are you eating iron fortified breads or cereals?
You have some hypo T symptoms or elevated T issues, perhaps compounded by thyroid and hematocrit
Your TT and FT implies low SHBG
“”"
Conditions associated with high or low levels
SHBG levels are decreased by androgens, anabolic steroids,[6] polycystic ovary syndrome, hypothyroidism, diabetes, obesity, Cushing’s syndrome, and acromegaly. SHBG levels increase with estrogenic states (oral contraceptives), pregnancy, hyperthyroidism, cirrhosis, anorexia nervosa, and certain drugs. Long-term calorie restriction of more than 50 percent increases SHBG, while lowering free and total testosterone and estradiol. DHEA-S, which lacks affinity for SHBG, is not affected by calorie restriction.[7]
“”"
Was your glocose=102 a fasting result?
If so, you might consider lab work for Glycated hemoglobin - Wikipedia
[/quote]
blood pressure is high
i think i fasted when I took this test.
I took iodral 12.5mg daily for 1 week and then 3 weeks of 25 mg daily for 3 weeks.
the past 2 days I have had a burning sensation in my throat / esophagus when I swallow. I read online that this is a side effect of iodine.
I also have been taking 200mg of magnesium daily and 200mcg of selenium daily with the iodoral.
the burning sensation hurts when I swallow liquids or food…is the burning most likely from the iodine? Do i need to discontinue use? should i restart? when?
thanks guys.
You are close to the arbitrary IR target of 750mg.
Stop the IR and see what happens. If it feels like the sharp sensation of a sore throat, might be a virus. Resume a maintenance dose of 6.25 mg/week later on.
If you palpate your thyroid, does that have a remarkable sensation?
Google: “sore throat iodine replenishment” does not yield anything
Some of what you read may be from people using iodine drops where the throat is exposed to iodine. With coated tablets, there would be zero direct exposure. So its not so simple to interpret what you find posted.
I really do not have an understanding of how a systemic dose would lead to this. Some posts that I found had guys taking a lot more iodine than I discuss.
When does one test for Hashimoto’s? I do not know and do not know how Iodine and Hashimoto’s get along together.
[quote]KSman wrote:
You are close to the arbitrary IR target of 750mg.
Stop the IR and see what happens. If it feels like the sharp sensation of a sore throat, might be a virus. Resume a maintenance dose of 6.25 mg/week later on.
If you palpate your thyroid, does that have a remarkable sensation?
Google: “sore throat iodine replenishment” does not yield anything
Some of what you read may be from people using iodine drops where the throat is exposed to iodine. With coated tablets, there would be zero direct exposure. So its not so simple to interpret what you find posted.
I really do not have an understanding of how a systemic dose would lead to this. Some posts that I found had guys taking a lot more iodine than I discuss.
When does one test for Hashimoto’s? I do not know and do not know how Iodine and Hashimoto’s get along together.
[/quote]
In both children and adults, there is concern that higher intake can increase the risk of side effects such as thyroid problems. Iodine in larger amounts can cause metallic taste, soreness of teeth and gums, burning in mouth and throat, increased saliva, throat inflammation, stomach upset, diarrhea, wasting, depression, skin problems, and many other side effects.
so it sounds like I need to back off my iodine intake? should i drop to 12.5 mg per day after i wait a few days of no iodine?
Lab work from 4/29/2013 from quest labs:
vitamin d: 61 [30-100]
e2 estrogen: 10 <=29
test total: 480 [250-1100]
blood work done at 12, lunch time. i believe i had eaten breakfast.
current symptoms:
no libido
brain fog
my right nipple has been itching some occassionally since I did 4 weeks of iodine.
your thoughts ksman? my doctor said estrogen levels can fluctuate like test so he was not concerned with my E2 being at 10.
i have been on .1mg of arimidex everyday for the past 2 months and am still on it right now.
Nipple itch. Most would suspect high E2, but E2=10. Was that =10 or <10? We have had lab errors with labcorp for E2. If =10, cut dose on half.
Lower E2 has not restored T levels. So lets assume that your degree of hypogonadism is not simply going to be fixed by lowering E2. So the problem may be general health in some way or secondary hypo. Look at other aspects of your health.
How are your gums? If still sore, get an antibiotic. Ask your dentist, GP will not know what is best for suspected chronic dental infection. Doxycycline has some interesting properties if an option and does not create the typical secondary issues. You might need for 1-2 months and may not have any negative effects VS other drugs. So if viable for dental issues, at worse probably can do no harm and a very inexpensive drug. 100mg twice a day perhaps. Can cause issues with sun exposure, so avoid that. Read up at Wikipedia for more info. Also seems to balance some auto immune issues. Chronic inflammation affects your adrenal health and the toxic effects affect every cell in your body. There is the possibility of immune issues as well. Talk to your dentist and explain what else is going on. He/she may not be a rocket scientist, but may have some good ideas. There are a lot of guys with hormone problems that do not have gum infection/inflammation issues. You may have to address this before other interventions yield improvements in quality of life [QOL]. Gut health affects immune systems. Get a good probiotic. Should not be one or two species of bacterial. Example: Renew Life | Probiotics, Herbal Cleanses, and Digestive Enzymes You cannot take one or two, you need to take ED for a few weeks. BUT NOT when taking an antibiotic. But essential after an antibiotic.
Note that T balances E2. So lower T makes E2 levels more adverse. But low E2 can wreck libido and mental health, some get sore joints too.
Anti inflammatories: Vit-C and other vitamins, cal and mag, fish oil, flax seed oil/meal. You need to address this issue. The chronic gum inflammation is not confined to your gums but affects body and brain.
Let your concern about iodine issues slide and look for other things that may be important.
< can’t do more now …>
[quote]KSman wrote:
Nipple itch. Most would suspect high E2, but E2=10. Was that =10 or <10? We have had lab errors with labcorp for E2. If =10, cut dose on half.
Lower E2 has not restored T levels. So lets assume that your degree of hypogonadism is not simply going to be fixed by lowering E2. So the problem may be general health in some way or secondary hypo. Look at other aspects of your health.
How are your gums? If still sore, get an antibiotic. Ask your dentist, GP will not know what is best for suspected chronic dental infection. Doxycycline has some interesting properties if an option and does not create the typical secondary issues. You might need for 1-2 months and may not have any negative effects VS other drugs. So if viable for dental issues, at worse probably can do no harm and a very inexpensive drug. 100mg twice a day perhaps. Can cause issues with sun exposure, so avoid that. Read up at Wikipedia for more info. Also seems to balance some auto immune issues. Chronic inflammation affects your adrenal health and the toxic effects affect every cell in your body. There is the possibility of immune issues as well. Talk to your dentist and explain what else is going on. He/she may not be a rocket scientist, but may have some good ideas. There are a lot of guys with hormone problems that do not have gum infection/inflammation issues. You may have to address this before other interventions yield improvements in quality of life [QOL]. Gut health affects immune systems. Get a good probiotic. Should not be one or two species of bacterial. Example: Renew Life | Probiotics, Herbal Cleanses, and Digestive Enzymes You cannot take one or two, you need to take ED for a few weeks. BUT NOT when taking an antibiotic. But essential after an antibiotic.
Note that T balances E2. So lower T makes E2 levels more adverse. But low E2 can wreck libido and mental health, some get sore joints too.
Anti inflammatories: Vit-C and other vitamins, cal and mag, fish oil, flax seed oil/meal. You need to address this issue. The chronic gum inflammation is not confined to your gums but affects body and brain.
Let your concern about iodine issues slide and look for other things that may be important.
< can’t do more now …>[/quote]
Gums are still sore. I have an appointment with a specialist dentist. Gums have been slowly receding ever since the soreness started. It is IMO - either grinding at night, gum disease, or another autoimmune disease…I am taking 1000mg of vit c a day, a strong probiotic, calcium, magnesium, fish oil, 5000 iu vitamin d. I am also taking ZMA at night before bed.
I am attempting to come completely off of arimidex before my upcoming blood work. I had been on .1mg a day for the past 3-4 months. I then reduced to .1mg EOD for a week and then .1mg E3D for a week.
Should I reduce my taper to .1mg E4D for a week and then .1mg E5D for a week or am I at a low enough level to stop medication now without any nasty estrogen rebound?
I am going to see my physician and attempt to have full blood work done. Should I just ask for all of the tests in the sticky? the 50 or so tests? or do I need to add in additional tests? I am going to tell the doctor just say it is to test for hypogonadism, low vit d, and hypothyroidism to try to get insurance to pay for it.
I am doing all of this in preparation for my upcoming 2nd attempt at a HTPA restart. My testes are not full size, I have noticed over time the veins wrapping around my tests have greatly reduced in size. libido, non existanent, strength weak, recovery times long, brain fog present.
I will have access to hCG, arimidex, clomid, nolvadex from my doctor so I will need to present him with the best plan including timing on these/combination of these drugs.
I will post fullblood work before proceeding with any plan. It will be an 8 am fasted full panel blood work if I can convince my GP to do it. My GP is not the doctor treating my hypogonadism or whatever the underlying issue is.
what are your thoughts on this HTPA restart plan KS?
http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf
the actual plan is bottom left hand corner under “methods”
sorry for long post but I am hitting rock bottom and yet have not given up on being able to restart my HTPA to full power. thank you for reading.
EDIT: I should let it be known when I tried hcG a few years ago, my strength immediately went WAY up, my fat burned off incredibly fast and my test numbers shot up. libido did not improve at all though. whenever I took 50mg a day of clomid, my test numbers shot up. my libido did not improve and I got estrogen-like sides of emotion, crying, etc.
I never took hcg or clomid with an anti estrogen. I have never tried nolvadex.
Got a urine test done at the doctor’s office
I was fasted while I pissed into the cup.
Urobili was 0.2
pH was 5.5
Sp. Gr. was 1.020
I have no idea if this is good or bad but if I understand correctly, the 5.5 pH is terrible and I am really acidic?
How is your exercise level? Sometimes incorporating some good cardio can really help me reduce brain fog and get the blood moving again. Also if you’re having lack of libido, it could be because you’ve lived with these symptoms for so long. Since you’ve got your E2 and T levels straightened out, give your body some time to adjust to these new levels.
Try Cialis for daily use in the meantime to get your body used to having morning wood again, and being ready for sex. That should improve your mood, and help you start feeling better so that you can enjoy your high T levels! Once you start having normal erections again in the morning and other times, it’s amazing what that will do to boost your energy level, and stabilize your mood.
If all else fails, don’t rule out seeking mental health care. My wife is a Psych Doctor, and reminds me often that 99% of the symptoms of low-T mirror those of depression, and other mental health issues. Sometimes low-T can cause depression and visa versa. There is no shame in “changing the oil” once and awhile by visiting a psychologist, and working through some of these issues. It’s normal to feel down about this stuff, because it is a medical condition that we all live with – for which there is no cure, and something we can only endure treatment for the rest of our lives. That is a heavy burden to carry for sure!
Best of luck…
1 Like
That study does not apply, it is a suggested method for normal guys for PCT.
If you are going to do ah HPTA restart, what will you do with lab results in your current state? To get/justify treatment?
Get to that dentist. Perhaps there would be a culture done.
If you stop anastrozole, there would be a rebound. But to what degree. Staying on low dose can be a good situation in some cased. I am confused about what you are trying to do.
Got labs done 6/18/13 - 9:45 am, fasted
Vitamin B 12: 551 [200-1100]
Folate, Serum: 14.5 [>5.4]
Cortisol: 5.8 [4-22]
TSH: 1.29 [.4-4.5]
FSH: 2.9 [1.6-8.0]
LH: 4.2 [1.5-9.3]
Test, total: 499 [250-1100]
Free test: 107 [35-155]
Vitamin D: 91 [30-100]
Cholesterol, Total: 118 [125-200]
HDL Cholesterol: 41 >=40
Triglycerides : 47 <150
LDL-Cholesterol: 68 <130
CHOL/HDLC RATIO: 2.9 <=5.0
Non HDL Cholesterol: 77 mg/dL (calc)
Protein, Total: 7.3 [6.1-8.1]
Albumin: 5.0 [3.6-5.1]
Globulin: 2.3 [1.9-3.7]
Albumin/Glob Ratio: 2.2 [1.0-2.5]
Bilirubin, Total 0.7 [0.2-1.2]
Bilirubin, Direct 0.2 [<=0.2]
Bilirubin, Indirect 0.5 [0.2-1.2]
Alkaline Phosphatase 24 [40-115]
AST 13 [10-40]
ALT 10 [9-46]
Glucose 79 [65-99]
Urea Nitrogen (bun) 30 [7-25]
Creatinine 1.25 [.6-1.35]
eGFR Non-AFR. 78 [>=60]
Bun/creatinine ratio 24 [6-22]
Sodium 140 [135-146]
Potassium 4.6 [3.5-5.3]
Chloride 103 [98-110]
Carbon dioxide 29 [19-30]
Calcium 9.8 [8.6-10.3]
I have been off of the arimidex for about 2 weeks now. I feel the same off of it as on it.
current symptoms:
no morning wood
no dreams
no sex drive
no random erections
not as sharp mentally
do not have the feeling of great well being
greatly reduced sensation in the penis
my testes hang but the veins that normally wrap around them appear to be atrophied
I am really getting depressed because of the no sex drive and reduced sensation…
what should I do? waiting has not fixed anything. it looks like waiting will not fix anything.
If I were to try another HTPA restart (is this even the issue??? it has to be? my problems started and continued when I started taking the superdrol prohormone 6 years ago) I can get hCG, arimidex, nolva, and clomid. My reading has lead me to believe a combination of nolva + clomid is the best because the clomid will stimulate lh + fsh while the nolva will stop the pituartary from becoming de-sensitized by the clomid?
KSMAN, what doses and time lengths and which compounds do you recommend for me to structure an attempt at an HTPA restart to get everything firing again? I am really hitting rock bottom here with frustration
499 Test is in what my doctor calls a grey area. You should get it over 800 for a month before you get down on yourself. I thought he was full of it, but I was in the same zone and once I maintained 800+ for a month or so, my body came back online. I’m injecting 125MG per week to hold these levels. Combine that with Cialis and you will be golden man, trust me on this – I’ve been there. After a couple weeks of getting MW back, your sex drive will return and you can usually forget about the Cialis, or just use it when needed or on the weekends when you really want to rock some poor girls world.