T Nation

Pro Hormone Damage, Low Libido. 27 YO

Took superdrol roughly 4 years ago. Gave me mild gyno, libido and morning wood have been non existent ever since. I hate my life I just want to return to normal, crazy libido. Done HCG and clomid 2 years ago.

This is my quest diagnostics blood work that came back out of range/normal.

Comprehensive metabolic panel
Glucose [102] range: 65-99 mg/dL (out of range) High

bunch of other stuff that is well within middle of range

Albumin [5.2] range: 3.6 - 5.1 High
Alkaline Phosphatase [25] range: 40-115 Low

Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total [28] Range 30-100 ng/mL LOW

TSH [.8] range .4-4.5 mIU/L (normal)

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive [38] range: <=29 HIGH

LH [10.1] range: 1.5-9.3 slightly high

Test total [807] range: 250-1100 ng/dL

FREE Test [205.6] range: 35-155 pg/mL VERY HIGH

-age: 27
-height: 5’10
-waist: 32
-weight: 160
-describe body and facial hair: body and facial hair appear normal. nice thick goatee.
-describe where you carry fat and how changed: increased fat in stomach region.
-health conditions, symptoms [history]: no health issues until after prohormone usage (one cycle)
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: no RX drugs, no hair or prostate drugs ever. OTC: vegetable multi vitamin, ZMA, 5000 iu vit d, nordic naturals fish oil 3 x a day.
-lab results with ranges: posted above
-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets]: average diet. some processed foods, some ‘natural foods’ 3 meals a day with 2-3 shakes a day.
-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training]: getting back into training so Mon, wed, friday of squats, rack pulls, db press with 16 minutes of HIIT on recumbent bike
-testes ache, ever, with a fever?: testes never ache
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: i no longer get morning wood. i used to get morning wood every. single. day. nocturnal erections are extremely weak. no more diamond cutters…

I took this last week at lunch time. Empty stomach. No chemicals or prescriptions or anything for 2 years. No raging libido. I lift and do cardio. My doctor put me on .1mg of arimidex per day for 30 days. I am about 6 days in. i was a bit more moody on one or two days otherwise I feel exactly the same. My gums have been constantly hurting and receding the past 10 months. Probably related? not sure. Dentist says i do not have gum disease but it is OBVIOUS my gums have been hurting and receding 1-2 mm at least.

my estradiol came back high and my vitamin d came back very low. i am taking 5000 iu a day of vitamin d. been doing that for about a week or so.

what is wrong with me? I want my libido and erections back. Getting tired of taking cialis, it does not always work for me at 20mg. my test and lh appear great? what the hell? i dont feel like a high test male is supposed to.

anyone? help? desperate…

Read the advice for new guys sticky and provide more info. You can edit your post above if needed.

DHT is critical for libido. Are you using a drug to combat hair loss? DHT is often part of lab work.

Vitamin C intake? Take larger amounts an see if gums respond. You could try chewable product as well.

Iodine intake [iodized salt]? Get cold easily? Dry skin?

Body temperatures?

Energy levels and how does that change during the day?

Depressed? Low dopamine, no joy or satisfaction/reward. Affects libido.

What are your fasting cholesterol levels?

Diet can be poor if one feels like crap.

Vitamins etc?

Sleep ok?

Malnutrition can cause low levels of alkaline phosphatase in the blood. Deficiencies in vitamin B6, folic acid and vitamin C can lead to alkaline phosphate deficiencies as well as an excessive intake of vitamin D. Hypophosphatasia, or low levels of phosphorous, zinc and protein deficiencies can also cause abnormally low levels,

What drugs, OTC or Rx and supplements? Weed? Alcohol? Something might be limiting your liver’s ability to clear E2. E2 can really mess things up. Effects can take 7-10 days to be noticed. Takes about 5 days to achieve final serum levels for a steady dose. I would take that past 30 days.

Get a high potency probiotic, from a health food shop, should be refrigerated. IF your gut bacterial are causing problems, this should fix that.

FT varies during the day and labs can catch a peak or trough. So the absolute number is not meaningful. Your high E2 should increase SHBG and that reduces FT. You might have an abnormally low SHBG level that is allowing FT to be high. But your FT range may be age adjusted [how old are you]? Many on TRT have FT levels that high or greater. There may not be an issue here at all.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Read the advice for new guys sticky and provide more info. You can edit your post above if needed.

DHT is critical for libido. Are you using a drug to combat hair loss? DHT is often part of lab work.

Vitamin C intake? Take larger amounts an see if gums respond. You could try chewable product as well.

Iodine intake [iodized salt]? Get cold easily? Dry skin?

Body temperatures?

Energy levels and how does that change during the day?

Depressed? Low dopamine, no joy or satisfaction/reward. Affects libido.

What are your fasting cholesterol levels?

Diet can be poor if one feels like crap.

Vitamins etc?

Sleep ok?

Malnutrition can cause low levels of alkaline phosphatase in the blood. Deficiencies in vitamin B6, folic acid and vitamin C can lead to alkaline phosphate deficiencies as well as an excessive intake of vitamin D. Hypophosphatasia, or low levels of phosphorous, zinc and protein deficiencies can also cause abnormally low levels,

What drugs, OTC or Rx and supplements? Weed? Alcohol? Something might be limiting your liver’s ability to clear E2. E2 can really mess things up. Effects can take 7-10 days to be noticed. Takes about 5 days to achieve final serum levels for a steady dose. I would take that past 30 days.

Get a high potency probiotic, from a health food shop, should be refrigerated. IF your gut bacterial are causing problems, this should fix that.

FT varies during the day and labs can catch a peak or trough. So the absolute number is not meaningful. Your high E2 should increase SHBG and that reduces FT. You might have an abnormally low SHBG level that is allowing FT to be high. But your FT range may be age adjusted [how old are you]? Many on TRT have FT levels that high or greater. There may not be an issue here at all.[/quote]

I will write up a detailed response tonight. please check back KSman.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Read the advice for new guys sticky and provide more info. You can edit your post above if needed.

DHT is critical for libido. Are you using a drug to combat hair loss? DHT is often part of lab work.

Vitamin C intake? Take larger amounts an see if gums respond. You could try chewable product as well.

Iodine intake [iodized salt]? Get cold easily? Dry skin?

Body temperatures?

Energy levels and how does that change during the day?

Depressed? Low dopamine, no joy or satisfaction/reward. Affects libido.

What are your fasting cholesterol levels?

Diet can be poor if one feels like crap.

Vitamins etc?

Sleep ok?

Malnutrition can cause low levels of alkaline phosphatase in the blood. Deficiencies in vitamin B6, folic acid and vitamin C can lead to alkaline phosphate deficiencies as well as an excessive intake of vitamin D. Hypophosphatasia, or low levels of phosphorous, zinc and protein deficiencies can also cause abnormally low levels,

What drugs, OTC or Rx and supplements? Weed? Alcohol? Something might be limiting your liver’s ability to clear E2. E2 can really mess things up. Effects can take 7-10 days to be noticed. Takes about 5 days to achieve final serum levels for a steady dose. I would take that past 30 days.

Get a high potency probiotic, from a health food shop, should be refrigerated. IF your gut bacterial are causing problems, this should fix that.

FT varies during the day and labs can catch a peak or trough. So the absolute number is not meaningful. Your high E2 should increase SHBG and that reduces FT. You might have an abnormally low SHBG level that is allowing FT to be high. But your FT range may be age adjusted [how old are you]? Many on TRT have FT levels that high or greater. There may not be an issue here at all.[/quote]

I will write up a detailed response tonight. please check back KSman.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Read the advice for new guys sticky and provide more info. You can edit your post above if needed.

DHT is critical for libido. Are you using a drug to combat hair loss? DHT is often part of lab work.

Vitamin C intake? Take larger amounts an see if gums respond. You could try chewable product as well.

Iodine intake [iodized salt]? Get cold easily? Dry skin?

Body temperatures?

Energy levels and how does that change during the day?

Depressed? Low dopamine, no joy or satisfaction/reward. Affects libido.

What are your fasting cholesterol levels?

Diet can be poor if one feels like crap.

Vitamins etc?

Sleep ok?

Malnutrition can cause low levels of alkaline phosphatase in the blood. Deficiencies in vitamin B6, folic acid and vitamin C can lead to alkaline phosphate deficiencies as well as an excessive intake of vitamin D. Hypophosphatasia, or low levels of phosphorous, zinc and protein deficiencies can also cause abnormally low levels,

What drugs, OTC or Rx and supplements? Weed? Alcohol? Something might be limiting your liver’s ability to clear E2. E2 can really mess things up. Effects can take 7-10 days to be noticed. Takes about 5 days to achieve final serum levels for a steady dose. I would take that past 30 days.

Get a high potency probiotic, from a health food shop, should be refrigerated. IF your gut bacterial are causing problems, this should fix that.

FT varies during the day and labs can catch a peak or trough. So the absolute number is not meaningful. Your high E2 should increase SHBG and that reduces FT. You might have an abnormally low SHBG level that is allowing FT to be high. But your FT range may be age adjusted [how old are you]? Many on TRT have FT levels that high or greater. There may not be an issue here at all.[/quote]

DHT is critical for libido. Are you using a drug to combat hair loss? DHT is often part of lab work. - i am balding, runs in the family on both sides, taking NO drugs for it, never have. just shave my head like a boss.

Vitamin C intake? Take larger amounts an see if gums respond. You could try chewable product as well. I get minor vitamin c from my multi vit. how much would you dose and how many times a day?

Iodine intake [iodized salt]? Get cold easily? Dry skin? : dont really take in much iodized salt. i dont get cold really easy but my face has dry skin sometimes.

Body temperatures?: would need to measure.

Energy levels and how does that change during the day?: i always get tired after lunch regardless of meal size. i seem to have more energy once i get off of work.

Depressed? Low dopamine, no joy or satisfaction/reward. Affects libido. : i dont know if i am depressed but i do not enjoy things like i used to. i do not feel good about my libido/ ED situation that has been going on for a few years now though…

What are your fasting cholesterol levels?: would need to get this measured in a lab

Diet can be poor if one feels like crap.

Vitamins etc?: multi-vitamin and 5000 iu a day of vit d

Sleep ok?: i never wake up feeling fully rested. 5-8 hours a night.

Malnutrition can cause low levels of alkaline phosphatase in the blood. Deficiencies in vitamin B6, folic acid and vitamin C can lead to alkaline phosphate deficiencies as well as an excessive intake of vitamin D. Hypophosphatasia, or low levels of phosphorous, zinc and protein deficiencies can also cause abnormally low levels,

What drugs, OTC or Rx and supplements? Weed? Alcohol? Something might be limiting your liver’s ability to clear E2. E2 can really mess things up. Effects can take 7-10 days to be noticed. Takes about 5 days to achieve final serum levels for a steady dose. I would take that past 30 days. : rare weed usage, alcohol once or twice a week.

Get a high potency probiotic, from a health food shop, should be refrigerated. IF your gut bacterial are causing problems, this should fix that. gut bacteria could cause libido and ed issues?

edit: It should also be noted that my blood pressure has been abnormally high as of late. higher than my 58 year old dad. my doctor said if i dont get it down by spring he is putting me on medication (which i will refuse to take). im sure this factors in somehow.

I am also taking Cialis 20mg once or twice a week. it is only having a mild to moderate effect nothing to write home about…

Vit-C, find some 500mg chewables take a few during the day.

BP:

test for homocysteine and CRP
take fish oil, high potency B complex multi-vits, vit-D3

[quote]KSman wrote:
Vit-C, find some 500mg chewables take a few during the day.

BP:

test for homocysteine and CRP
take fish oil, high potency B complex multi-vits, vit-D3[/quote]

Here is my update:

I have been taking 5000 iu of vit d3 and tanning in a salon. I have been taking a good fish oil product 3-6 times a day. 500 mg of regular swallow vit c. Brain fog, nervousness, ED, and low libido still present. I am tired everyday. Here are the results from my last lab a few weeks ago:

estradiol ultrasensitive came back at 27… the range is <29 - this was on 45 days of .1 mg arimidex daily. I noticed no real improvement in my condition. I am thinking maybe my problem is not estrogen or test related but thyroid?

total testosterone came back at 722 ng/dl. range 250-1100. lower than my last test. odd. but my doc said your test levels rise and fall during the day so he is not concerned.

free test was 204.4 the range is 35-155. so my free test is off the charts and yet i feel like a low test male. awesome.

my doctor has switched me to two months of .1 mg arimidex EVERY OTHER DAY. I just started this today (i skipped my 6 am arimidex .1 mg pill). will take my next dose tomorrow morning at 6 am.

I have read on the internet that kelp contains a lot of iodine and selenium and that they help with the thyroid. I am going to purchase a high quality kelp supplement and take 500-600 mg daily 3 to 6 times a day and see if this has any effect.

my next lab work in 1 month will test for the following:

Estradiol
Somatomedin (insulin growth factor)
a full thyroid panel
Test;total
prolactin
a full complete blood count

I am very desperate. I am 27 and I feel like shit. low energy, no sex drive, tired and weak, brain fog, depressed.

:frowning:

Body temperatures?

You have E2=27, taking .7mg anastrozole per week. To reach E2=22pg/ml your dose would need to be 0.5 x 27/22 = .86 mg, we recommend starting at 1.0 then adjust, you doc wants to reduce anastrozole to .35 mg per week. This will not make you feel any better.

You should be feeling decent with your TT, FT and E2 now. Check your body temps so we know what is going on.

We know that your iodine intake has been minimal, so that could be the problem. People store 1 - 1.5 GRAMS if iodine, mostly in their thyroid glands. Taking small amounts cannot get much accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

get a high potency B complex vitamin supplement that has vitamin K

[quote]KSman wrote:
Body temperatures?

You have E2=27, taking .7mg anastrozole per week. To reach E2=22pg/ml your dose would need to be 0.5 x 27/22 = .86 mg, we recommend starting at 1.0 then adjust, you doc wants to reduce anastrozole to .35 mg per week. This will not make you feel any better.

You should be feeling decent with your TT, FT and E2 now. Check your body temps so we know what is going on.

We know that your iodine intake has been minimal, so that could be the problem. People store 1 - 1.5 GRAMS if iodine, mostly in their thyroid glands. Taking small amounts cannot get much accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

get a high potency B complex vitamin supplement that has vitamin K
[/quote]

I have failed to measure my body temperatures. I would like to address your post for some further clarification.

body temp: measure just upon waking or waking + another time(s)?

what dose of arimidex should I ask my doctor for and how do I explain to him that 27 is still too high and that I need to get around to 22? I will go to compounding pharmacy and get whatever dose he prescribes.

how long should I run the new dose you recommend of arimidex for? none of my bad sides/ feelings of low test have been reduced even at 29. 0 libido, 0 morning wood.

best way to get my iodine up? I am going to buy the kelp and take it because everything i have read says it is awesome for hypothyroid.

I am going at lunch to buy the high potency b + k and kelp and taking them with my lunch today.

so my test looks fine and I still feel like a weak small scared man. no rando erections, no night wood, no morning wood. no sense of well being. brain fog. no libido. my gums are still hurting and receding. anxiety and sometimes i have poor appetite.

is thyroid the number one suspect at the moment? if not thyroid, what else could it be?

Also, I should note that sometimes my brain fog feels worse while on the arimidex? i am assuming going to a higher dose of arimidex is going to make my brain fog even worse? thats not good… I figured lowered estrogen would sharpen up my mental focus and clarity…

Check your cortisol, and if you have adrenal fatigue maybe the pro hormone stressed a lot your adrenals
Adrenal fatigue can lead to decreased sex drive, lazyness etc
Also I read a post of a guy (not here) that he started to waking up with morning wood after fixing his adrenal fatigue and also his libido started to get normal. Another guy I saw that after taking HC 5mg he started to feel awesome with libido and morning wood. That’s something you should look into. Your hormone levels are awesome I also think I’m not sure if you have adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid it won’t let your hormones get into the cells. Try to search about it and tell me too. I’m facing the same problems that you’re having. I’m very deficient in vitamin D my level is 9 I’d like to increase it to at least 30 and get the same testosterone that you have.

[quote]brazilianguy wrote:
Check your cortisol, and if you have adrenal fatigue maybe the pro hormone stressed a lot your adrenals
Adrenal fatigue can lead to decreased sex drive, lazyness etc
Also I read a post of a guy (not here) that he started to waking up with morning wood after fixing his adrenal fatigue and also his libido started to get normal. Another guy I saw that after taking HC 5mg he started to feel awesome with libido and morning wood. That’s something you should look into. Your hormone levels are awesome I also think I’m not sure if you have adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid it won’t let your hormones get into the cells. Try to search about it and tell me too. I’m facing the same problems that you’re having. I’m very deficient in vitamin D my level is 9 I’d like to increase it to at least 30 and get the same testosterone that you have.[/quote]

my test was crashed into the 300s and 400s for a while. I used doctor prescribed high dose of hCG and a month of clomid daily to bring my test back into the 700-800s where it is maintaining.

what blood work do I ask my doctor for concerning cortisol and adrenal fatigue?

also, what is HC?

for my vitamin d I am taking 5000 iu every morning with a meal and tanning at darque tan 3 times a week (I was very pale, I must be starting to look better because the wimmenz are paying me more attention haha). If your vitamin d level is super low do the same regimen I am for vitamin d. only your first trip to the tanning salon will be awkward :stuck_out_tongue:

Do you still take HCG and Clomid? This blood work was while taking HCG and Clomid? Some say vitamin D levels increase testosterone hope this is right also I’ve found a guy that raising vitamin D increased his testosterone a lot.

For adrenal fatigue you should do a salivar cortisol test 4 times a day, SDHEA, Progesterone, Pregnenolone, Aldosterione I don’t know what you need try to search about it I will try to find a guy who just took HC Hydrocortisone and started feeling fine. He is not on trt or anything else. What I think is that his Isocort is like the natural thyroid which have all thyroid hormones but in that case it has all adrenal hormones.

http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21453-Low-cortisol-levels-and-non-existent-libido

please if you want to talk to me by e-mail
joocarlos924@yahoo.com.br

I hope we can get out of it just taking the same thing this guy is taking would be awesome to get life back

Anything that hurts your vitality will affect other systems in the body and can reduce hormone levels.

HC = hydro-cortisone, way to early to be taking about that! Lets get an [8]AM cortisol test for a start. See the advice for new guys sticky for adrenal concerns and stress issues. Would need to read Wilson’s book if looking more in that direction. And we would be interested to see if rT3 had come to the party to limit thyroid function, as we might see in lower body temperatures, WHICH ARE IN THE SAME STICKY.

Estrogens oppose the action of what T you have by:

  • causing the liver to make more SHBG
  • SHBG bound T goes up
  • FT goes down
  • increased E2 blocks T at T receptors
  • increased gene expression controlled by E2 opposes the effects of T driven gene expression

We do know that introduction of TRT to guys who have untreated [sub]clinical hypothyroidism creates the wanted increases metabolism that is expected, but with low thyroid function, the body cannot meet those increased/restored metabolic levels and one can end up with a poor response, or feeling quite bad. Same with adrenal fatigue. Combine both, and its a mess. We see both here and often in combination. If we have more adrenal fatigue posts, then that causes google to sent more guys with those issues here, so we often see surges in some types of traffic. We are seeing a lot of thyroid issues because we address those so deeply and attract more of the same.

So using anastrozole may make one feel bad by aggravating an underlying condition that will not support TRT’s restored metabolic levels. So, stop anastrozole or deal with the other pathologies? Sometimes TRT is modified or dropped while these other problems are resolved.

Let lay off the adrenal issue until we get cortisol or OP’s discussion about his stress levels, events and reactions.

Serum [blood] E2=22pg/ml is broadly recognized to be optimal from the point of view of energy, libido, initiative. This also reinforces analytical behavior and reduces emotions; which are typical male characteristics. Lower E2 is healthier for insulin resistance, arterial health, prostate. I have been near E2=22 for 5 years and my PSA levels keep getting lower and lower. The calculated dose will get you there. E2=27–>22 is not a major change, but I wanted to contrast that against cutting your dose in half. What was the thinking behind that?

great…I woke up this morning and took a leak. then i remembered to take my temperature… 97.0 degrees F. I immediately took it again…97.0 degrees the 2nd time. Uhh…seems a bit low…?

Iodine is iodine, does not matter much what the form is.

If you take iodine and your temperatures are better, this is an easy fix. But we really need to have fT3, fT4 data and your body temps justify that.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Iodine is iodine, does not matter much what the form is.

If you take iodine and your temperatures are better, this is an easy fix. But we really need to have fT3, fT4 data and your body temps justify that.

[/quote]

I do not get my blood work done until January 15, 2013 with a full thyroid panel…

I will keep recording temps. Should I self medicate with iodine? The kelp supplement is not giving me very much iodine. What brand and how much/ when should I take now to self medicate? I am worried about taking iodine if I do not have an iodine problem. Should I do it?

You can take iodine and if temperatures normalize, that is a diagnosis. And if you feel better…

You can check out a health food shop. Ask for high potency. If nothing there, shop WWW for iodoral.

very cold this morning outside… slept with the fan on…

waking temp 96.8 wow…

Odd, see how this trends.