T Nation

Prison Rape Attitudes

I think we are hypocritical towars that subject in a few ways…let me explain. No one would joke about a woman being raped, no matter how much cleavage her blouse showed, no matter how short her skirt and the fact she is wearing no panties. But on the other hand, we’ll laugh and make jokes about a guy who gets raped for sagging his pants in prison.

Consider this scenario: Sixteen year old girl that looks 28 uses a fake id to get into a bar on a Saturday night. She meets a 30 year old man. They go to his place, she really wants to have sex but doesnt want to lie about her age anymore. She tells him she’s 16 (lets assume she is the age of consent in this scenario) but she still really is hot for the 30 y/o man. The two have consensual, but protected sex, a good time is had by all and thats the end.

Scenario #2: Sixteen y/o boy goes to hang out with friends on a Friday evening. He is a good kid, never been in trouble with the law, does his homework, works a little after school job at the local barbershop sweeping up hair. While out one of his friends get an idea to steal a car to go joyriding and he just goes along for the ride. They are quickly caught by the police.

They are booked into the county jail where they spend the entire weekend. While in the county jail, the 16 y/o boy is raped by a 30 y/o inmate that just came home from doing time for armed robbery. This weekend in jail changes this boys life to the point where he is confused on whether he is gay or straight (he was happily straight before and even had a girlfriend) and constantly depressed.

The same people who would be shocked and apalled by my first scenario and say the girl was an innocent victim (of what, an imaginary crime?) and the man should be hung on a cross would then turn around and laugh at my 2nd scenario and say the boy shouldnt have dropped the soap and maybe even praise the rapist. Isnt that fucked up???

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I think we are hypocritical towars that subject in a few ways…let me explain. No one would joke about a woman being raped, no matter how much cleavage her blouse showed, no matter how short her skirt and the fact she is wearing no panties. But on the other hand, we’ll laugh and make jokes about a guy who gets raped for sagging his pants in prison.

Consider this scenario: Sixteen year old girl that looks 28 uses a fake id to get into a bar on a Saturday night. She meets a 30 year old man. They go to his place, she really wants to have sex but doesnt want to lie about her age anymore. She tells him she’s 16 (lets assume she is the age of consent in this scenario) but she still really is hot for the 30 y/o man. The two have consensual, but protected sex, a good time is had by all and thats the end.

Scenario #2: Sixteen y/o boy goes to hang out with friends on a Friday evening. He is a good kid, never been in trouble with the law, does his homework, works a little after school job at the local barbershop sweeping up hair. While out one of his friends get an idea to steal a car to go joyriding and he just goes along for the ride. They are quickly caught by the police. They are booked into the county jail where they spend the entire weekend. While in the county jail, the 16 y/o boy is raped by a 30 y/o inmate that just came home from doing time for armed robbery. This weekend in jail changes this boys life to the point where he is confused on whether he is gay or straight (he was happily straight before and even had a girlfriend) and constantly depressed.

The same people who would be shocked and apalled by my first scenario and say the girl was an innocent victim and the man should be hung on a cross would then turn around and laugh at my 2nd scenario and say the boy shouldnt have dropped the soap and maybe even praise the rapist. Isnt that fucked up???[/quote]

Scenario 1

Shit happens. Some women can be trusted, some women can’t.

Scenario 2

Jail/Prison sucks.

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I think we are hypocritical towars that subject in a few ways…let me explain. No one would joke about a woman being raped, no matter how much cleavage her blouse showed, no matter how short her skirt and the fact she is wearing no panties. But on the other hand, we’ll laugh and make jokes about a guy who gets raped for sagging his pants in prison.

Consider this scenario: Sixteen year old girl that looks 28 uses a fake id to get into a bar on a Saturday night. She meets a 30 year old man. They go to his place, she really wants to have sex but doesnt want to lie about her age anymore. She tells him she’s 16 (lets assume she is the age of consent in this scenario) but she still really is hot for the 30 y/o man. The two have consensual, but protected sex, a good time is had by all and thats the end.

Scenario #2: Sixteen y/o boy goes to hang out with friends on a Friday evening. He is a good kid, never been in trouble with the law, does his homework, works a little after school job at the local barbershop sweeping up hair. While out one of his friends get an idea to steal a car to go joyriding and he just goes along for the ride. They are quickly caught by the police. They are booked into the county jail where they spend the entire weekend. While in the county jail, the 16 y/o boy is raped by a 30 y/o inmate that just came home from doing time for armed robbery. This weekend in jail changes this boys life to the point where he is confused on whether he is gay or straight (he was happily straight before and even had a girlfriend) and constantly depressed.

The same people who would be shocked and apalled by my first scenario and say the girl was an innocent victim and the man should be hung on a cross would then turn around and laugh at my 2nd scenario and say the boy shouldnt have dropped the soap and maybe even praise the rapist. Isnt that fucked up???[/quote]

I’m not sure I agree. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I think the first scenario isn’t really a big deal, while the second scenario is a huge problem. In my opinion, the age of consent for sex should be 16. If you can drive a car, you can consent to sex. Moreover, I would add a 4-year sweep for those under 16, so that if the two parties are within 4 years of each other, no crime is committed for consensual sex. Thus, a 14-year-old girl and her 18-year-old boyfriend (essentially a freshman and senior in high school) could have sex without anyone going to jail. But if the dude is 19 or older, he’s out of luck.

However, I would also not make statutory rape a strict-liability crime. Strict liability means that you are guilty even if you thought you weren’t committing a crime based on mistake of fact. In the statutory-rape context, it means that if you have sex with a girl under the age of consent but you meet her in a bar (where she’d have to be 21 to enter) or she shows you a fake ID saying she’s 18, you could still be found guilty. I would change it so that a reasonable mistake of fact is a defense to statutory rape.

On the flip side, I think rape in prisons is a huge problem that is not being addressed. To me, that is totally fucked up and should not be that hard to stop. It’s ridiculous that it is allowed to happen.

Aren’t you making assumptions about what people would assume?

I think completely the opposite to what you suggested for both scenarios. The girl knew what she was doing and could be considered a slut, the boy is an idiot and got his arse raped as a result. There’s really nothing more to it.

There are SO many things wrong with your first post…
#1) 95% of people would NOT say that first girl was raped, they’d say either it was her ‘fault’ or there’s nothing really wrong.
#2) Since when does a boy who gets RAPED start thinking maybe he’s gay… because he got raped?
#3) NOBODY is praising that rapist. If someone murders a small child, or is a child molester, or something along those lines and then gets raped in prison, yes a lot of people are happy that happened. They’re still not saying ‘thank God for that rapist.’ And I don’t think ANYONE is saying thank God that guy got raped since he went on a joy ride in that stolen car. And also, he’s not guilt free just because he wasn’t the one stealing the car, he still got in it. Get some new friends.

There might be one in a million people who actually agree with what you’re saying in both scenarios, but both are ridiculous. So, yes, it’s fucked up, but very rarely. Lots of things are fucked up, if you look at the random things that some people think.

[quote]eic wrote:

I’m not sure I agree. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I think the first scenario isn’t really a big deal, while the second scenario is a huge problem. In my opinion, the age of consent for sex should be 16. If you can drive a car, you can consent to sex. Moreover, I would add a 4-year sweep for those under 16, so that if the two parties are within 4 years of each other, no crime is committed for consensual sex. Thus, a 14-year-old girl and her 18-year-old boyfriend (essentially a freshman and senior in high school) could have sex without anyone going to jail. But if the dude is 19 or older, he’s out of luck.

However, I would also not make statutory rape a strict-liability crime. Strict liability means that you are guilty even if you thought you weren’t committing a crime based on mistake of fact. In the statutory-rape context, it means that if you have sex with a girl under the age of consent but you meet her in a bar (where she’d have to be 21 to enter) or she shows you a fake ID saying she’s 18, you could still be found guilty. I would change it so that a reasonable mistake of fact is a defense to statutory rape.

On the flip side, I think rape in prisons is a huge problem that is not being addressed. To me, that is totally fucked up and should not be that hard to stop. It’s ridiculous that it is allowed to happen. [/quote]

reminds me of the system in Colorado under 15yrs old they have to be within 4 years of eachother 15+ within 10 years and 17+ is the full age of consent. I think the fact that people mock prison rape is that most people think of criminals as less than human and unworthy of being protected which is pretty fucked up. Although the prospect of prison rape is probably a pretty strong crime deterrent.

[quote]clip11 wrote:
The same people who would be shocked and apalled by my first scenario and say the girl was an innocent victim and the man should be hung on a cross would then turn around and laugh at my 2nd scenario and say the boy shouldnt have dropped the soap and maybe even praise the rapist. Isnt that fucked up???[/quote]

…who the fuck is praising the rapist, that is unbelievable. I think the girl and the man she slept with are both innocent neither did wrong in my eyes, though I can see how others would see it your way; however I dont think the majority, upon hearing all the info you stated, would feel that way about the boy at all. We all can imagine…

[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:

#2) Since when does a boy who gets RAPED start thinking maybe he’s gay… because he got raped?

[/quote]

sometimes the trauma experienced by the victim can do that, it can become a self-loathing even though they are victims, or they think that they could have stopped it but they didn’t, and in their minds that can lead to confusion about their sexuality.

[quote]Bigfoot833 wrote:
Gmoore17 wrote:

#2) Since when does a boy who gets RAPED start thinking maybe he’s gay… because he got raped?

sometimes the trauma experienced by the victim can do that, it can become a self-loathing even though they are victims, or they think that they could have stopped it but they didn’t, and in their minds that can lead to confusion about their sexuality.[/quote]

Well THAT sucks

Your observation is entirely correct. As evidenced by the responses. Noone cares if a guy gets raped in a prison. This is wrong on so many levels. Apathy is “in”.

Two prison rape scenarios,

  1. Say I go to prison & get raped. As a male raped by a male, who comes back from that? Now I’m completely destroyed inside and beyond any real rehabilitation. I’ve got nothing left to lose and probably don’t care if I live or die. Let me loose on society and watch what I’ll do if I get out.

  2. I go to prison and I’m threatened with rape. To survive I become something extremely violent in a way I never would have before. Now I’ve crossed that line, I’m far more dangerous than ever and I probably won’t ever come back. Not to mention now that I’ve survived prison I’m not afraid to go back. Release me and society is F#$%*

Both scenarios have just created worse criminals that if released are more likely to negatively impact society around them.
Sorry for the rant but I’ve seen it happen to a lot of friends and a lot of friends have been the victims of those it’s happened to once released.

Bottom line is this…

If you cant take it in the ass, dont do crime. No matter how “good” the boy is in that second scenario, he went along with it and didnt try to stop the car theft. IMO, anyone who is dumb enough to let themselves be caught should get a wiener in the ass. “If you cant do the time…”

Its fuckin prison/jail. WTF do you expect? Plus the chick on the first scenario wasnt raped. She wanted the shit to happen thats why its called CONSENSUAL.

You’re a dumbass for assuming you know what people might assume. And do you even know what “rape” means? The chick wanted to get fucked so the guy gave it to 'em. Big deal…

The girl in scenario one consented to the sex, but so did the 30 year old guy. I think that age gap is wrong, and so would many other people. What I find to be the strange thing is that if the genders were reversed I wouldn’t find it so ‘wrong’.

I’ve known once of my best friends since I was 4, and by extension his sister who is just two years below us. I grew up with them, they lived very close to me and I spent much of my childhood in their home. And recently I discovered that his sister (18 now) is going out with a 35 year old man. 17 is the age of consent here, and 18 is a legal adult, but this situation is fucking wrong.

This girl also happens to be stupid enough to believe that they are really in love and all this other crap but a man of that age with a girl that young just isn’t right. The girl in scenario 1 knew what she was doing, but so did the man. While I don’t think it’s ‘hang them’ worthy crime it seems like a different situation when it’s someone you know. I can’t imagine how my friend must feel about it.

You’re kind of a dumbass for writing that. If the girl isn’t of age, regardless of her willingness to participate, it’s statutory rape.

I’m not saying I agree with it, but try not to insult a guy because you think he misused a word.

Rape is rape, regardless of gender. I’m pretty sure most people see it that way. In the second scenario, the male was unconsenting and forced into it, that’s rape.

The age of consent in Canada is 16, and that is just recent, it was 14. The first scenario is clearly not rape, she consented and a good time was had. There was no force or coercion.

I’m not sure why the OP is confused.

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Bottom line is this…

If you cant take it in the ass, dont do crime. No matter how “good” the boy is in that second scenario, he went along with it and didnt try to stop the car theft. IMO, anyone who is dumb enough to let themselves be caught should get a wiener in the ass. “If you cant do the time…”
[/quote]

The punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Someone caught with a bag of pot or joy riding doesn’t deserved to get raped.

This is idiotic for 2 reasons.

#1 Just because you’ve been sent to jail does not mean you deserved to be raped. People go to jail for not paying tickets they didn’t even know about.

#2 Ever hear of something called statutory rape?

Anybody that sexually assaults someone else is an evil psycho fuck that deserves to rot and starve in prison or worse.

And anyone that assaults a child, sexually or otherwise should be put to death. Not good enough for incarceration.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Bottom line is this…

If you cant take it in the ass, dont do crime. No matter how “good” the boy is in that second scenario, he went along with it and didnt try to stop the car theft. IMO, anyone who is dumb enough to let themselves be caught should get a wiener in the ass. “If you cant do the time…”

The punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Someone caught with a bag of pot or joy riding doesn’t deserved to get raped.

Its fuckin prison/jail. WTF do you expect? Plus the chick on the first scenario wasnt raped. She wanted the shit to happen thats why its called CONSENSUAL.

This is idiotic for 2 reasons.

#1 Just because you’ve been sent to jail does not mean you deserved to be raped. People go to jail for not paying tickets they didn’t even know about.

#2 Ever hear of something called statutory rape?

[/quote]

The punishment doesnt fit the crime? True. But its prison man. You expect to get a cake for getting jailed? Thats why we have laws to abide. The more you follow those, lesser the chance of you being fucked in the ass in jail. The world is a cruel place to live in. Its jail, again what do you expect?

#1 I dont know much about getting tickets “you dont know about”, but how exactly do you get tickets you dont know about? Pardon me for being clueless on that subject but being sent to jail/prison means you must’ve fucked up for some reason. I know some get falsely accused, but chances are, they’re probably not.

#2 Fuck that. How is it rape if the girl is not forced to having sex? Rape is forcing someone to take a dick. Plus, its not like he drugged the girl or something. The girl MADE A FAKE ID, WANTED TO GET FUCKED and got what she wanted. Is it wrong to give someone what they want?

I think in a very awkward way, the OP was attempting to address the disparity of attitudes toward rape. His examples were not supportive of this intent, as already pointed out the first scenario was not rape. LOL @ those here (some of you must live in very protected places) that seem to believe being raped in prison is a guarantee, mere formality and part of the punishment.

Yeah, it happens, but not as much as some of you are imagining. However, the issue is should it be allowed to happen at all? The answer of course is an unequivical no. These men are in “custody” - and that means they need to be protected. Furthermore, as someone pointed out, these men are going to be released among you one day.

We are great at punishment, terrible at rehabilitation and lousy at second chances. The “fuck them” attitude is great if that’s how you feel, but its myopic because you are not considering that they will one day be released upon us all.

Rape, regardless of gender, has to be one of the most humiliating and traumatic experiences a human can suffer. It is not okay obviously for a woman to be raped. And it is equally not okay for a man to be raped - whether in prison or not. When you go to prison, we remove for a while certain rights from the prisoner - we do not however have the right to abandon their humanity.