T Nation

Primo/Winny/Tren/(Nor?) Androsol

Ok, it has become well known that if one is going to incorporate primo and winny into a short cycle it would be best to go 1gram or so of primo on day 1, and 200-300mgs on days 4, 7, and 10 with winstrol being 200mgs on day 1 and 50 mgs eod until day 10 or so. Now, my question is this: while keeping risk low and reward as high as possible, how would one incorporate tren and androsol into this scheme for maximum muscle and strength gains? Let us take this from the perspective of planning for six 2on/4off cycles totaling 36 weeks. Can the winny be used orally for weeks 3, 4, and 5 of every mini-cycle, being off of it on week 6 and then starting back up at 200mg on day 1 of the next cycle? How would tren be most effective in the 36-week plan? Off-weeks or in conjunction with the on weeks? How about the androsol? Would it be better to use norandrosol? Morning-only dosing? If so, when? Keep in mind that the goal is quality muscle gain with maximum strength while keeping sides as low as possible. So, if you were forced to use these four compounds (and you must try to use all them!) in constructing a 36-week plan, how would you guys do it? Also, when would you start with the clomid?

One quick remendation: 50 mg Winstrol Depot per day, not every other
day. The amount would be still more actually if only Winstrol weren’t so
expensive.

Now, if you're using trenbolone at a substantial dose, like 50 mg/day or a solid Fina cycle applying 100-200 mg/day, there's no point in using Primo. Primo does nothing tren does not do cheaper (with the exception that Primo has the nice property of having an unusual ratio of anabolic to inhibitory activity: so if you're interested in low dose use that keeps natural T going, Primo is way better than trenbolone.)

Androsol would be used same as usual.

I have had athletes use orals in the morning for weeks 3, 4, and 5 with no problem, but if 17alkylateds are being used during the "on" weeks as well, these days I'm feeling that's being on 17-alkylated too high a percentage of the time. So these days I prefer only 2 weeks of alkylated orals, morning only, after the "on" weeks.

Trenbolone is for "on" weeks. Now some have asked, could you get away with it in a morning only application that's washed off, and who knows maybe you could, but I've seen trenbolone be quite inhibitory even at quite pathetic injected doses like I think 20 mg EOD if I recall correctly. It's really inhibitory.

Why must we try to use all of the compounds (one of your requirements.) I prefer to minimize complexity: makes it easier to tell what you're doing! And besides that, most of the time when you have a lot of different steroids, it's pointless, some are duplicating others in their effect. If the tren is available, I'd save Primo for those future occasions where you want moderate anabolism with only mild inhibition.

Since there are no aromatizing steroids, Clomid might as well only be used in off weeks: 300 mg first day (50 mg six times) then 50 mg/day.

I guess that I was not very clear on the requirement of using all the compounds. It does not have to be at the same time. For example I was thinking that it might be best to use the primo/winny scheme for short schedules 1&2, with maybe tren for the next few with the goal of first building up some muscle and then becoming a bit harder and stronger with the tren.

Now, IF cost was not an issue how much winstrol would one use? Still 200mgs on day 1? How much every day for the duration of the short cycle?

As for the androsol, I was hinting at using it in the same fashion as one would use dianabol, in that it could be used for morning-only dosing for bridging the gap for weeks 3,4,5 and maybe 6. Is this logic flawed? Would it be wiser to switch winstrol use to oral and only use it for 2 weeks morning only during the off weeks, or try androsol at 70 sprays per morning, washing it off with soap and water by 7pm or so as suggested?

Finally, when you say that primo and tren are interchangeable with the exception of primo having an unusual ratio of anabolic to inhibitory activity, is it safe to say that in a short cycle there is little/no difference between using the two (as far as gaining strength and muscle are concerned)? Which one stacks better with winstrol? Now I am a bit confused. Would it be better to start this 36-week plan out with a traditional cycle of primo (8-12 weeks of 1gram on day 1 and 400-500mg's per week thereafter) and then switch to some short cycles (after how much time off?) of tren and winstrol, bridging the gap of off weeks with androsol? I am just curious as to how one would use these four compounds maximally in a 6-7 month cycle in order to yield the most muscle but more importantly strength while keeping sides down.

bill you say 20mg/day is a paltry dose and a good does is 50mg/day but that is a ton of shooting. is 66mg/ EOD good dose when stacked with androsol and testosterone at 500mg every 5 days or should i dose daily. seems like a lot of scar tissue. also doesnt fina clog with anything smaller than 22 guage? this is what i use.

Doesn’t using winstrol with tren. help to keep some of the progesterone-induced sides at bay, since it is anti-progesterone and blocks the receptors?