looking to start first cycle, want to keep it short & “healthy” having read steroids for health etc thinking of doing short cycle (maybe 4-6 weeks) of 400mg/week primo or deca & 50mg Winstrol oral ED (all lit suggests 50mg ED oral or 50mg EOD depot, is this enough??). as neither aromatise would i need clomid during or just after to bump up endogenous test production & what are your opinions of deca vs primo (is it correct that in practise winstrol helps to prevent progesterone side effects of deca?) plus would i need to front load the injectables?
I think you will find that the majority of people on this board have a negative opinion concerning deca. Because of how hard it shuts you down, the water retention, and the extremely long time that it stays in your system, I would not use it unless it was being stacked with a test ester. For that matter, the only nandrolone I would ever use is Nadrolone Phenyl Propionate (Durabolin), because of its short half-life (approx 1-3 days, depending on who you listen to), and with how quickly it takes effect. I'm sure you realize that with both of your choices, it will take while to feel the effects (as per your front-load question). I really feel that with either cycle you describe, a testosterone should be included, especially with deca. In my opinion, a tren/primo/winny stack, or a test/deca/winny stack would give you much better results. Also, you haven't let us know what you are trying to accomplish, and what your stats are. If you are set on the primo/winny, for myself I would run 600-800 mgs of primo the first week, then level off at 300-400mgs a week for the remainder, with at least 75mgs of Winny ED, oral or injectable (just don't exceed six weeks). But , again, I dont know your stats, so I can't give you an exact number for any of these. I'm not as well read concerning the progesterone sides of deca, but I am sure that primo is comparatively more safe. I run 1.25mg of Letrozole ED throughout all of my cycles, but i am a little gyno-paranoid and also get it for dirt cheap. If you go the primo route, you can get by with just using clomid or novladex post cycle, bc of the winny and primo's mild effect. If you choose deca, please USE HCG!! Run it at 250-500 iu's on Saturdays and Sundays, starting one week after your first injection, and ending one week prior to PCT. Otherwise you might not catch a glimpse of Mr. Happy for a good month or two. It is always a good idea to run HCG no matter what, but if you leave it out in a deca cycle, it's your dick....... Hopefully this was helpful. It's good to see you started researching, keep looking, because there are plenty of articles concerning what you are asking....Lata
If you are looking for a cycle that will be minimally suppressive, Primo and Winny is the ticket. Neither drug will give you massive gains, however the gains you do get will be reasonable and easy to hold on to. Neither drug aromatises, and winstrol has even been found to down regulate the Estrogen receptors, and occupy progesterone receptors to an unknown extent. Primo also has some joint and tendon building properties, though not to the extent of equipose or nandrolone but this should still help to reduce joint soreness caused by Winstrol. There also is no need for clomid or nolvadex post cycle, as neither drug will have caused significant inhibition of hypothalmus/ pituitary axis via estrogen aromatisation. In light of this I believe that this combination contraindicts the use of HCG. As hcg does aromatise to estrogen which will cause htpa suppression both via the ER and also via a negative feedback loop of Lutenizing hormone, since HCG is essensially synthetic LH.
If you plan on using nandrolone deconate, It would be a good Idea to off set your use of winstrol so that it began once blood levels of nandrolone had reach your target amounts. Begin winstrol and stay on until deca had been d/c and the falling blood levels had sufficiently tapered out of your system. This could take as long as 2 1/2 months however. So in light of this I agree with outkast and recomend the use of nandrolone phenlypropinate instead, As there is no use in initiating a pct until these levels have fallen. P-22
thanks for the help so far guys. stats wise i’m 22 6’ 172lbs 9% body fat looking to get to 200lbs & keep as much as possible, hence the non hardcore cycle. do you think the primo winny would set me on the way or do you think i should maybe go for a test cycle? can get hold of sust 250 but worry about side effects (acne, hair loss, gyno) & extra costs to prevent these (propecia, proviron/ nolvadex & clomid therapy afterwards). so would the 800mg front load of primo (followed by 400/week) & 50mg ED of winstrol be what i need or should i keep looking?? Oh & i’ve seen that some guys advocate splitting injectables over the week to keep levels as stable as poss so would 1 weekly of 400mg be good or 200mg twice a week?
I don’t think you are ready to cycle steroids. Your stats tell me that If you knew what you were doing, you could easily gain 20lbs of muscle naturally. And expecting to gain 30 lbs of muscle and keep it all on a “non-hard core cycle” is incredibly unrealistic! especially when your knowledge of steroids is very limited, and your knowledge and experience in the gym is lacking as well. In my not so humble opinion, you need to pay your dues in the gym! and quite dreaming of a quick chemical fix! Steroids are not a magic pill! Its obvious to me that you are just a skinny kid dreaming of being one of the big boys on the beach this summer! Well if it was that easy, every one would look like that. P-22