Looking for some color on primo doses, results, etc. It’s really tempting me lately but the cost is so outrageous that I want to be damn sure before I pull the trigger. Anyone have any experiences to share? Thanks.
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Minimum of 700mg (for me) and kicks in around the 8th week mark (without a frontload).
No sides. Clean and dry gains, good recomp. Stack with Tbol or Var for a very nice cycle, keep the test low to avoid bloating which would defeat the purpose of a dry cycle.
Overall, very good compound which I will be incorporating into every blast, be it a bulk or a cut.
SB
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yo @iron_yuppie have you ever used dimethazine? From what I recall you have some experiences with DS. They’re selling it OTC at a supp store close to me, so I’m curious. Appears toxic as fuck, I’m seriously curious as to how 4-8mg/day for a week or two would affect my lipids, renal and hepatic function (there’s very little data as to the effect of this compound on these parameters).
It’s two molecules of an anabolic steroid (can’t decipher which one it is) with nitrogen bonds (azine group) connecting the molecules together, upon ingestion stomach acid probably somewhat breaks the bond and the compound is metabolised to god knows what. Literature appears to demonstrate metabolites of methasterone (dimethyldrostanolone) are excreted in the urine upon ingestion of dimethazine. At which point during ingestion the compound is converted to methasterone (if that is what it’s metabolised to) would dictate the exact level of toxicity the drug has.
Another ingredient in the supplement appears to be 6 alpha chloro testosterone, a designer compound with next to no (or potentially like literally 0-1%) oral bioavailability, why they’ve included both ingredients I don’t know.
They recently went out of stock regarding the PH to M1T. So it does appear as if they’re still selling this (admittedly more dangerous than black market) stuff OTC, just gotta look for the right store. Tis actually somewhat cheaper than BM AAS (say buying orals vs buying these, this would be cheaper)
Yeah, DMZ was around some years ago and then vanished here in the states after the ban. If I recall it was actually a prescription drug for a while in the early 60’s. I know it was related to superdrol in some way, but I never read anything that outlined the chemistry well enough to make any judgement. I remember reading people say it was “oral masteron” which maybe chemically is accurate but in practice I think it’s stronger than that. Personally I’ve never used it, and given the other choices I probably wouldn’t. Methylstenbolone exists, so dymethazine seems like a waste of money. Plus if you want liver toxicity you might as well go for Alpha-1 and actually reap some rewards from that kind of risk.
Fun fact, my AST/ALT were high after using the msten, but not high enough for my doctor to be concerned. 10/10 would use again (and will use again this Fall)
I’m into the designers because frankly they’re easy to get and customs doesn’t stop packages from major UK supplement shops. I can get a truck full of epistane, alpha-1, msten, and halo, all delivered to my door without any legal issues. That’s attractive to me, despite the fact that in the past I was willing to get, um, “other things” delivered to me. I’m sure once I have a need to place an order for more “established” compounds I’ll end up skipping the designer stuff, but until then it’s nice to know that in six days I can have some pretty powerful stuff and no worries about whether or not a package is going to actually get delivered.
dimethazine is a pro-steroid (potentially inactive in it’s unmetabolised form, however it does display an A/A ratio so who knows).
Oral masteron was methasteron (masteron being 2a methyl dihydrotestestosterone and superdrol being 2a 17a dimethyl dihydrotestosterone)
Methylstenbolone was the oral stenbolone, stenbolone is what mast is to DHT but with a DHT base so it’s like 2a methyl dihydroboldenone and then methylstenbolone is 2a 17a dimethyl dihydroboldenone)
M-1-T is methylated dihydroboldenone without any other alterations, M-1-A is a precursor (methyl 1 epietiocholanolone I think) epietiocholanolone is a metabolite of T, if it works similarly to T then I’d assume through backwards pathways it could be converted to M-1-T at a low rate, although it probably has anabolic potency in itself.
The main attraction for me is the fact that I can get these OTC, thus I’m not committing a felony. I’m not interested in a full cycle (people run these for like 4-6 wks) I wanted to try a low dose for 1-3 wks and see what it does to lipids, kidney and liver function because there isn’t much in the way of reporting the effects of these designer compounds on the body.
Halo is a PH to Tbol, beware the effects it has on lipids seems to be horrific, toxicity to gains ratio probably isn’t in your favor.
It’s nice to know I can drive twenty minutes down to a store and get it instantly
The toxicity of DMZ appears to anecdotally be below that of M-sten and M-1-A.
So reading about alpha-1 lead me to understand it exactly as you said; it has a small conversion to m1t, but it is also a standalone steroid. Results seem totally insane based on a lot of logs over the years, but those kind of gains aren’t free. The cost has to be serious impact on multiple systems, not just the liver. Personally it’s too much risk when I know I can achieve my goals over s longer period with better diet and fewer drugs.
Well it’s harsh on the liver, kidneys, cardiovascular system. Worse than just about all other orals supposedly, however m-sten is structurally very similar, why the toxicity difference? Who knows, that’s just how AAS are lol. The ridiculous spikes in blood pressure some people acquire can cause damage (esp to blood vessels and kidneys) quickly if a hypertensive crisis develops. The effect on the lipid profile will contribute to long term atherosclerotic burden, effects regarding heart enlargement will be more severe due to BP issues (otherwise regarding stimulating direct growth of the heart who knows, given the very short durations of use I wouldnt be too worried about that if BP was under control. I’d be more worried about plaque deposits from fucked up lipids
I also believe a lot of this is dose dependant. Have a dude take 5mg of m1a/day they’ll probably see some gains without the presence of extreme toxicity. But the guys doing the logs are taking like 30-50mg+/day, and for something of that potency it seems insane to me. Same with DMZ and msten, people taking 30-60mg/day seems ridiculous.
Gains from test, primo, eq aren’t free either. Harm is being done, the question one has to ask themselves is whether they’re willing to accept the risk. I would never use stanozolol due to its poor benefit/cost ratio for me. Doesn’t stimulate large gains in lean mass, moderate nephrotoxicity and hepatotoxicity, completely trashes lipids and anecdotally appears to be harsh on the joints. Then take Dbol for example, large accruations of lean mass (supposedly never used it ), moderate hepatotoxicity and nephrotoxicity, trashes lipid profile somewhat but not quite as badly as stanozolol, neurotoxic in very high direct concentrations. Whether this factors into real life scenarios is unknown (though stanozolol is too), however given the benefit/cost ratio I’d be down to try it for like 10-12 days.
I mean in the future, no interest in using Dbol currently.
Dbol is amazing in low doses. If I wasn’t worried about the e2 issues id take 10mg/d for months at a time.
On paper, Primo might have a long list of sides but in reality there isn’t much. And thats coming from someone who usually suffers ALL the sides listed for most drugs.
SB
I believe primo can fuck up you’re lipid profile pretty bad when dosed high.
Anyone ever gotten HDL checked on like 1 gram of primo/wk? It probably isn’t great…
I would still rank primo as one of the least harmful of the drugs that are available though, no?
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I’m not sure, in terms of potential physical side effects probably, otherwise we don’t really have enough literature to gauge the level or harmfullness on a compound vs compound basis regarding effects on longevity.
We can only go by what we have
- nandrolone and tren appear to be rather harsh
- orals contribute to atherosclerotic burden, blood clots and hepatic/renal toxicity moreso than injectables
But regarding a direct effect on heart structure and function aside from nandrolone (even then the info is based on primary animal models)… Who knows, I’d gather agents that bind to the AR very strongly would have potential to be simulate hypertrophic stimuli in cardiac myocytes (somewhat), however there’s more to it than just AR binding, very complex, very irritating that we don’t have better research done. However prohibition seems to be the preferred route rather than harm reduction. Reminds me of these music festivals in Sydney were stupid kids were talking pills said to be methylenedioxymethamphetamine (a very common recreational drug among my age demographic here), however they’d take it from anyone who gave it to them without enquiry of where it came from, testing etc. So a few kids died as the drugs were laced, that and MDMA raises body temp somewhat + is proarrythmic + appears to potentially cause valvular heart damage and generally isn’t a good idea for (especially kids) to use given how badly it burns up serotonin… The governments conclusion was to ban the music festivals despite the fact they’d been going on for decades, other places feel it’s better to add high police presence and sniffer dogs, further promoting harm done as people are more inclined to sneak stuff in and take whatever. My point is, the same thing, in theory, has been done with AAS. The lack of research has us taking what we “percieved” to be safe, but without testing and adequate data who knows… That and people like me who don’t take recreational drugs like that are potentially punished… Although anabolic steroids are under the umbrella of recreational drug use, so is any (in my opinion) consumption of alcohol, caffiene, marijuana etc, just different levels of severity I guess. Thank god I don’t live in NSW, seeing Metallica later this year, wonder if it’s gonna get banned there. And just test the fucking pills, it isnt encouraging drug use, kids will be kids and use this shit anyway, whether it be at music festivals, gatherings, house parties, nightclubs etc, so might as well try make sure they don’t die…
As to liver function, I should say ALL AAS, not just orals, increase the risk of hepatic tumours, it just seems to be a risk factor associated with them. That being said c17-aa compounds are riskier than their unmethylated counterparts.
Damn I am totally agree with the point of this
Every professional sports now heavily depends on streoids
Also many regular guy uses as well
It should become legal and get fully regulated like food
God DAMMIT I thought about it and my judgement won’t let me use something like dimethazine, it’s just too risky. Why do I have to THINK about things
Think I’ll try 330mg test/wk for 2-3 weeks and see how I feel on (what to me) is an absurdly high dose before I go back to TRT.
Simply isn’t rational for me to take a substance so harsh for the pursuit of “gains” when I’m not competing and there’s far better/safer ways to go about it.
I wanted to test something like that out for a week or two to see the impacts on my health parameters and because people say you get this “look” like dry, vascular, paper thin skin etc. Sounds rad, but I’m not willing to significantly risk my longevity for it. Maybe when I complete (which I will def do at least once), but I’ll still never touch winny… Ever… Or Tren, GH (unless I require it for therapeutic purposes one day), slin, tbol or trestolone (unless its eventually marketed as male birth control… Then sign me up)
After which it’d have been
250mg for 6wks
330 mg for 2-3 wks
Then I’ll take between 10-20 weeks off (preferably 20)
I feel great on 200mg (pharm grade)/wk, but will probs cruise on 150-175 and see if I feel any worse. Interestingly I was taking 200mg UGL recently/wk (like 2 mths ago) and felt fucking awesome so I got bloods done and the shit was super overdosed. My TT was like 700 on 150mg/wk, on 200mg of the UGL it was like 1500! I intend to cruise at high normal to mildly pharmacologic levels of T due to the massive increase in energy it gives me (which in turn increases my productivity both in life and academically)
Unpopular opinion: running a nasty oral for 4-6 weeks a few times over the course of your lifetime isn’t going to make a bit of difference to your longevity. Hell, most guys your age will be doing more damage to their bodies with pints of lager every weekend than you’d be doing by adding an oral once a year. I’m not saying you should do it, but don’t let that big brain of yours prevent you from doing something a little reckless once in a while. If you took your thought process—hyper rational—to its conclusion you’d never leave the house.
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Amen! I’m willing to bet the alcohol some of these “orals kill your liver” guys drink is doing more damage then any periodical oral AAS use will ever do.
Interesting you guys mention alcohol. As of recently i’ve actually entirely eliminated alcohol intake from my life. I used to drink an occasional beer and every few months even drink to inebriation on special events (drinking age is 18 here, 16 for private property), however I’ve decided to completely eliminate alcohol due to the myriad of adverse effects it has on the cardiovascular system, gastrointestinal lining, esophagus, renal and hepatic function etc. There’s NO benefit to alcohol consumption besides the fact that beer tastes really good (there’s non-alcoholic beer for that anyway, same awesome taste). My tolerance to alcohol is very, very high (potential ADH/ALDH genetic mutation?) Anyhow I find alcohol is bad news, the shit I’ve seen kids (and adults) do while intoxicated is (suprisingly) more severe then anything I’ve seen anyone do under the influence of any other substance.
On occasion I use marijuana, feels far milder than alcohol, literature seems to suggest it isn’t as harmful (yet is still detrimental to ones health and wellbeing if used for recreational purposes), that’s pretty reckless and irresponsible, however im comfortable with it as I know it probably won’t kill me (although a few case reports do exist linking marijuana intake to acute myocardial infarction in healthy young people, but more exist for alcohol)
Anyway I just can’t do it, nor can I run the 330mg test/wk, gonna just stick with 250 for a few more weeks, I feel comfortable with 250.
The thing is though, given the shortage of primoteston in Aus, I may be forced onto reandron or a gel, which would put me in a hypo state thus forcing me to use another synthetic androgen in between bloods (likely an oral pulsed or depending on the way the labs analyse bloods a synthetic androgen as some ways of testing don’t identify synthetic androgens as testosterone).
If this happens I’ll have to stop thinking and do something irresponsible anyway.
I tend to be very conservative with my AAS use because
A: if something serious went wrong I’d feel terrible as it’d be selfish for me to put my longevity at risk because my family cares about me, and even though I vehermontly disagree with them many subjects (lots involving religion), I still love them.
B: found out some of my far, far ancestors died of cardiac failure young (earliest 32, like over 100 years ago I believe), not closely related but still. Myocardial infarction at 32!!! Currently my family is known for longevity, grandmother is pushing 95, uncle lived til over 100. But one of my grandfather’s did die young of right sided heart failure secondary to emphysema as he smoked a few packs a day for a few decades.
C: my use is recreational, I’m not competing thus it’s hard, if not impossible for me to justify use other than I like bodybuilding and I like the look of being muscular.
But yes, I do tend to think hyper rationally, as there have been situations where I didn’t think (or didn’t care) and have wound up facing consequences due to it. A recent music festival is one of them, don’t want to talk about it but I went by myself and was unfortunately assaulted (not too bad, just a punch in the face and my phone was taken, credit card savings emptied out etc), I got it back eventually, but with some stuff stolen. Not important but events similar to what I just described have taught me it’s very important to think rationally. I was faaaaaar away from home with no moneyz or phone, that wasn’t particularly fun.
Let’s not talk about that ever again though, just demonstrating why I tend to think things through so meticulously.