T Nation

PRIDE Last Night

I would love for PRIDE to please give a chance to younger, hungrier fighters, especially heavyweights, and get rid of Hammer House and Belfort. If their contracts are guaranteed, then put them on as curtain-jerkers and let guys who are not washed up prove themsleves as worthy fighters. Its not fair to the next generation of fighters. That’s what UFC has done, and its paying off handsomely in their lighter weight classes.

Best match: Barnett-Nastula
Worst match: Randleman-Rua
Thumbs in the middle, leaning down

Very weird show, I didn’t really like it. Here’s why from a production standpoint: Frank Trigg is mealy-mouthed and currently displays the talent level of a late-night public access show host.

I can’t understand him, sometimes I can’t hear him because he doesn’t know how to project his voice, and he fails to realize his job is not to drone on and on, but to provide technical analysis, of which he provides almost nothing.

-Who was the 3rd commentator and why is he on the show? He brought nothing to the show.

-The announcer is awful, she is one of the worst things I have ever heard. Her voice is unbearable. Whenever I heard her voice on the shows I just figured it was a Japanese thing and she was Japanese. I didn’t think they’d use her or the other announcer.

-The intro music sucked. Those horrid japanese pop intro songs have to go, they make the show come across as cheesy and strange.

From a planning standpoint, why are PRIDE’s biggest stars not on their US debut show? Crocop, Silva, Yoshida, Nogueira, why were none of them fighting on a show vital for the future of the company? If Barnett could fight a month after the finals of the Hvwt tourney, Crocop and/or Noguiera should be able to as well.
Re: the fights, I found O’Haires performance suspicious. Lazy high kick, lazy kick to the body, doesn’t cover his chin, then he shoves himself into Butterbean’s belly and stays there seemingly waiting for the close range shots which are Butterbean’s strength and more or less the only offense Butterbean has to offer against a much much larger opponent.

Also suspicious: Vitor throws maybe 2 punches, then offers little resistance for 3 entire rounds. Once in a while he threw a love tap from the bottom. Randleman’s perfromances are always suspicious. He also didn’t put up much of a fight, and how can he get caught with a basic heel hook and knee bar, moves that really only work late into fights. It seemed like he just decided to take the punishment instead of resist, Did he throw the fight like O’Haire did or has he not learned simple leg-lock escapes in 10 years of fighting?

Crocop will undergo leg surgery very soon, and the doctor forbade any fighting in the meantime. He’s expected to miss the New Year Event as well.

As far as Wandy is concerned, I suppose the amount of punishment he took in the OWGP semis, coupled with alleged medical problems are the reasons for his absence.

I think PRIDE made a very foolish decision in scheduling this event so close to the OWGP finals. They could have anticipated that some of their biggest stars will be injured/recovering from the OWGP.

I totally agree with everything you say. Pride is looking more and more like WWE.

The annoying voice lady is the biggest “name” in Japanese MMA announcing. That still doesn’t mean it transfers well to non Japanese audiences. It doesn’t.

The videos are silly. The oriental humor doesn’t transfer well either. That’s why they think Jerry Lewis is the funniest guy ever.

Right now the UFC is the top of the food chain in MMA entertainment, and will stoon take over the world if the “big” boys don’t get to the top of their game.

[quote]MrCritical wrote:

Right now the UFC is the top of the food chain in MMA entertainment [/quote]

You guys are fucking insane…too much Ultimate Fighter for you guys on Spike.

Why was Fedor fighting Coleman? Perhaps because it was his first in almost a year. Besides, let us not forget that while Coleman is 4-4 in his last 8 fights, his loses are to Fedor(twice) Crocop and Nogueira…not exactly a bunch of chumps, in fact many may say they make up the top 3 HW in the world.

Why was Randleman fighting Shogun? Maybe because he lost to Coleman via injury and Pride is looking to hype some hostility between the two camps…whatever you want to say about Randleman, he comes to fight, not lay on someone, and watching him suffer thru those ankle locks and then knee bar without tapping until absolutely necessary was painful.

PRIDE is still a Japanese production even though they held it here in America and certain aspects of it will be directed towards that audience(like the intros and the announcers) but watching it live, I must say it was was the best production I have ever seen. An absolutely awesome experience which I will probably repeat when they come back in February.

Also, the public workouts in front of Ceasars were badass, giving the fans a lot of exposure and access to the athletes…Pride will do just fine here in America, it is the UFC that needs to watch their ass with their weakass cards and bullshit paydays to subpar talent.

lol @ ufc being top of the food chain. they’re not even tops in the US much less the world.

and they couldn’t have wanderlei fight because he’s still in a coma from that cro cop high kick.

It was a so-so show. It was definetely not one of Pride’s best shows.
The match-ups were made on purpose. Alot of American fighters. And names that even casual UFC fans would know I think, Belfort, Randleman, Baroni.
I think Pride doe not quite know what direction to go in, in America. They could just bring the match-ups they do in Japan, high quality but not many casual fans would know who the fighters are. I do not know if that would sell well. In the long run maybe.
I also get the impression the American ppv production values are not good. They need to work on that. The announcers also are not very good from what I heard. They need Bas Rutten to work for them again. He knows what he is talking about.
UFC knows how to market in America. The production values are not great but they know what Americans want to see. The UFC sometimes passes off mediocre fighters as elite talent, Leben, Forrest i.e. TUF fighters. They learned they can do this because many fans are not so discerning. I hope Pride in America does not copy that. The first show is suspect though.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
I would love for PRIDE to please give a chance to younger, hungrier fighters, especially heavyweights, and get rid of Hammer House and Belfort. If their contracts are guaranteed, then put them on as curtain-jerkers and let guys who are not washed up prove themsleves as worthy fighters. Its not fair to the next generation of fighters. That’s what UFC has done, and its paying off handsomely in their lighter weight classes.

Best match: Barnett-Nastula
Worst match: Randleman-Rua
Thumbs in the middle, leaning down

Very weird show, I didn’t really like it. Here’s why from a production standpoint: Frank Trigg is mealy-mouthed and currently displays the talent level of a late-night public access show host.

I can’t understand him, sometimes I can’t hear him because he doesn’t know how to project his voice, and he fails to realize his job is not to drone on and on, but to provide technical analysis, of which he provides almost nothing.

-Who was the 3rd commentator and why is he on the show? He brought nothing to the show.

-The announcer is awful, she is one of the worst things I have ever heard. Her voice is unbearable. Whenever I heard her voice on the shows I just figured it was a Japanese thing and she was Japanese. I didn’t think they’d use her or the other announcer.

-The intro music sucked. Those horrid japanese pop intro songs have to go, they make the show come across as cheesy and strange.

From a planning standpoint, why are PRIDE’s biggest stars not on their US debut show? Crocop, Silva, Yoshida, Nogueira, why were none of them fighting on a show vital for the future of the company? If Barnett could fight a month after the finals of the Hvwt tourney, Crocop and/or Noguiera should be able to as well.
Re: the fights, I found O’Haires performance suspicious. Lazy high kick, lazy kick to the body, doesn’t cover his chin, then he shoves himself into Butterbean’s belly and stays there seemingly waiting for the close range shots which are Butterbean’s strength and more or less the only offense Butterbean has to offer against a much much larger opponent.

Also suspicious: Vitor throws maybe 2 punches, then offers little resistance for 3 entire rounds. Once in a while he threw a love tap from the bottom. Randleman’s perfromances are always suspicious. He also didn’t put up much of a fight, and how can he get caught with a basic heel hook and knee bar, moves that really only work late into fights. It seemed like he just decided to take the punishment instead of resist, Did he throw the fight like O’Haire did or has he not learned simple leg-lock escapes in 10 years of fighting?
[/quote]

No Randleman is just like that. He has a style that has not changed at all. His strategy is the same. go for the take down and pound. He won’t do anything else. He will just wrestle a guy and get caught in a submission. It has happened often to him.
I think should just give up on Vitor Belfort. Just do not expect him to be 20 years old again. He often has lackluster outings. He is a name, so Pride uses him. He has talent so people always think if he “gets things together” he will be great again. They said the same thing about Mike Tyson for over ten years. It did not happen.

[quote]MrCritical wrote:
Right now the UFC is the top of the food chain in MMA entertainment, and will stoon take over the world if the “big” boys don’t get to the top of their game. [/quote]

Of all the dumb posts I’ve read, only two come to mind. (One guy said that coaches to pro athletes shouldn’t care if their athletes get injured, and another predicted a Shamrock victory over Ortiz.) This post is in that “status” of stupidity.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
MrCritical wrote:
Right now the UFC is the top of the food chain in MMA entertainment, and will stoon take over the world if the “big” boys don’t get to the top of their game.

Of all the dumb posts I’ve read, only two come to mind. (One guy said that coaches to pro athletes shouldn’t care if their athletes get injured, and another predicted a Shamrock victory over Ortiz.) This post is in that “status” of stupidity.[/quote]

second that

Dave Meltzer reported in his newsletter the official payroll for Pride real deal reported to the nevade state athletic commission.

Total Attendence - 11,727, Paid Attendence 10,527

Fedor Emelianenko $1,070,000
Mauricio Rua $130,000
Dan Henderson $125,000
Josh Barnett $125,000
Kazuhiro Nakamura $105,000
Phil Baroni $97,000
Mark Coleman $82,000
Vitor Belfort $75,000
Kevin Randleman $60,000
Robbie Lawler $50,000
Eric Esch $50,000
Pawel Nastula $40,000
Joey Villasenor $35,000
Yosuke Nishijima $25,000
Sean O’Haire $15,000
Travis Galbraith $10,000

Total reported payout: $2,094,000

Now, let’s look at the last two UFC’s:

UFC 63 Fighter Salaries
Event took place on September 23, 2006 and aired on pay-per-view

Title Match & Main Event Fighters
-Matt Hughes: $130,000
-BJ Penn: $50,000
-Jens Pulver: $30,000
-Rashad Evans: $24,000
-Mike Swick: $14,000
-Melvin Guillard: $10,000
-Jason Lambert: $9,000
-David Loiseau: $9,000
-Joe Lauzon: $6,000
-Gabe Ruediger: $3,000
-Tyson Griffin: $14,000
-Jorge Gurgel: $10,000
-Roger Huerta: $6,000
-Danny Abaddi: $5,000
-Eddie Sanchez: $4,000
-Jason Dent: $3,000
-Mario Neto: $3,000
-David Lee: $2,000

Disclosed Fighter Payroll for UFC 63: $332,000

UFC 64 Fighter Salaries
Event took place on October 14, 2006 and aired on pay-per-view

Title Match & Main Event Fighters

-Anderson Silva: $50,000
-Sean Sherk: $22,000
-Rich Franklin: $21,000
-Kenny Florian: $8,000
-Cheick Kongo: $20,000
-Jon Fitch: $20,000
-Spencer Fisher: $20,000
-Kuniyoshi Hironaka: $6,000
-Carmelo Marrero: $6,000
-Dan Lauzon: $3,000
-Yushin Okami: $12,000
-Clay Guida: $6,000
-Kalib Starnes: $5,000
-Kurt Pellegrino: $4,000
-Junior Assuncao: $3,000
-Justin James: $3,000

Disclosed Fighter Payroll for UFC 64: $209,000

Fedor alone made almost twice the total payout of the last two UFC PPV’s. Hmmm…where would I rather fight?

[quote]Donut62 wrote:

Fedor alone made almost twice the total payout of the last two UFC PPV’s. Hmmm…where would I rather fight?[/quote]

How much did the UFC take in?

Sounds like I shopuld be buying stock.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
MrCritical wrote:

Right now the UFC is the top of the food chain in MMA entertainment

You guys are fucking insane…too much Ultimate Fighter for you guys on Spike.

Why was Fedor fighting Coleman? Perhaps because it was his first in almost a year. Besides, let us not forget that while Coleman is 4-4 in his last 8 fights, his loses are to Fedor(twice) Crocop and Nogueira…not exactly a bunch of chumps, in fact many may say they make up the top 3 HW in the world.

Why was Randleman fighting Shogun? Maybe because he lost to Coleman via injury and Pride is looking to hype some hostility between the two camps…whatever you want to say about Randleman, he comes to fight, not lay on someone, and watching him suffer thru those ankle locks and then knee bar without tapping until absolutely necessary was painful.

PRIDE is still a Japanese production even though they held it here in America and certain aspects of it will be directed towards that audience(like the intros and the announcers) but watching it live, I must say it was was the best production I have ever seen. An absolutely awesome experience which I will probably repeat when they come back in February.

Also, the public workouts in front of Ceasars were badass, giving the fans a lot of exposure and access to the athletes…Pride will do just fine here in America, it is the UFC that needs to watch their ass with their weakass cards and bullshit paydays to subpar talent. [/quote]

Well said, Slimjim.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Dave Meltzer reported in his newsletter the official payroll for Pride real deal reported to the nevade state athletic commission.

Total Attendence - 11,727, Paid Attendence 10,527

Fedor Emelianenko $1,070,000
Mauricio Rua $130,000
Dan Henderson $125,000
Josh Barnett $125,000
Kazuhiro Nakamura $105,000
Phil Baroni $97,000
Mark Coleman $82,000
Vitor Belfort $75,000
Kevin Randleman $60,000
Robbie Lawler $50,000
Eric Esch $50,000
Pawel Nastula $40,000
Joey Villasenor $35,000
Yosuke Nishijima $25,000
Sean O’Haire $15,000
Travis Galbraith $10,000

Total reported payout: $2,094,000

Now, let’s look at the last two UFC’s:

For comparison’s sake, let’s look at the last two UFC PPV’s:

UFC 63 Fighter Salaries
Event took place on September 23, 2006 and aired on pay-per-view

Title Match & Main Event Fighters
-Matt Hughes: $130,000
-BJ Penn: $50,000
-Jens Pulver: $30,000
-Rashad Evans: $24,000
-Mike Swick: $14,000
-Melvin Guillard: $10,000
-Jason Lambert: $9,000
-David Loiseau: $9,000
-Joe Lauzon: $6,000
-Gabe Ruediger: $3,000
-Tyson Griffin: $14,000
-Jorge Gurgel: $10,000
-Roger Huerta: $6,000
-Danny Abaddi: $5,000
-Eddie Sanchez: $4,000
-Jason Dent: $3,000
-Mario Neto: $3,000
-David Lee: $2,000

Disclosed Fighter Payroll for UFC 63: $332,000

UFC 64 Fighter Salaries
Event took place on October 14, 2006 and aired on pay-per-view

Title Match & Main Event Fighters

-Anderson Silva: $50,000
-Sean Sherk: $22,000
-Rich Franklin: $21,000
-Kenny Florian: $8,000
-Cheick Kongo: $20,000
-Jon Fitch: $20,000
-Spencer Fisher: $20,000
-Kuniyoshi Hironaka: $6,000
-Carmelo Marrero: $6,000
-Dan Lauzon: $3,000
-Yushin Okami: $12,000
-Clay Guida: $6,000
-Kalib Starnes: $5,000
-Kurt Pellegrino: $4,000
-Junior Assuncao: $3,000
-Justin James: $3,000

Disclosed Fighter Payroll for UFC 64: $209,000

Fedor alone made almost twice the total payout of the last two UFC PPV’s. Hmmm…where would I rather fight?[/quote]

Glad someone posted this. Now everyone can know the truth behind a lot of guys “walking out” on the UFC like Penn and Pulver. Guys like Shamrock and Couture have also left UFC over money disputes in the past, but returned when UFC finally caved in and gave them better deals.

I have a feeling Franklin is going to get screwed when his contract comes up (I think he’s got 1 more fight on his current deal). If he’s not the champ, UFC is going to low-ball him in the negotiations.

If PRIDE starts to get a decent footing in the US, don’t be surprised to see more guys leaving the UFC.

To sum it up in one word.

Awkward.

Or in a sentence:

Pride…was…awkward…why…
am…I…talking…like…japanese…
Shatner?

Takada this is strike two for you! The first was that drum banging in undies that showed your ass! Oh the horror!

Overall I enjoyed the fights and it was a good show. Just not the best…especially for pride.

It just needs a bit more polish and should change a few minor things to make it less alien to North America.

As for the fights Natsula impressed the shit out of me until he got subbed after it went to the ground.

Coleman’s decision to have his kids in the ring after that fight was disturbing. You could see how uncomfortable Fedor was.

And Wand has the best broken english eva!

It was a very boring event.

The fights were almost all mis-matches. I don’t care for the American rules (3 x 5 min rounds vs. 10,5 or 10,5,5 and no stomps or 4 point strikes).

That said I’m looking forward to the next Pride PPV – Bushido. Lots of good fights on the card and I’ll be getting that for sure.

Here’s my take on the Pride Real Deal event:

  1. The event did lack a “super fight” that usually accompanies a Pride card and because of that it was not a great follow-up to the OWGP final (the best MMA event I’ve ever seen- my opinion).

  2. The fights were chosen to showcase many of Pride’s top stars against good talent (unfortunatly CroCop and Mark Hunt were unable to fight), but most fights had minimal chance of upset. For example, I enjoy watching Coleman, he will always bring the fight, but it would take a big mistake by Fedor for Coleman to win.

  3. Building on my last point, I think Pride was expecting lots of big hitting and exciting fights. They are not stupid, they know the American audiance doesn’t want a technical match. They were likely disappointed that Shogun never had a chance to attempt his aerial kicks.

  4. As for people complaining about the ring anouncers and introductions,… I love that part! I would have been disappointed if they had used local announcers. I view the Japanese coulture as part of the event.

  5. Overall, a good event and I think it would serve as a good introduction of Pride to the mainstream MMA audiance.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:

Fedor Emelianenko $1,070,000

Fedor alone made almost twice the total payout of the last two UFC PPV’s. Hmmm…where would I rather fight?[/quote]

Ahhh
It is good to be King…

[quote]Bram Wiley wrote:

That said I’m looking forward to the next Pride PPV – Bushido. Lots of good fights on the card and I’ll be getting that for sure.[/quote]

I agree. Kang, Gono, Misaki, Filho. We’re talking 4 of the top 6 or 7 185 pounders in the world going to war on the same night. That card is stacked. And I get to see someone booted in the head unlike the gay Nevada rules.

I think the thing that hurt the PRIDE show was the intermission. It was too long for the PPV audience. I’m sure for the people there in attendance it didn’t seem as bad b/c they had a chance to go to the consessions, bathrooms and buy some merchandise. But, an hour break in the middle of a show hurts a television audience.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
MrCritical wrote:

Right now the UFC is the top of the food chain in MMA entertainment

You guys are fucking insane…too much Ultimate Fighter for you guys on Spike.

Why was Fedor fighting Coleman? Perhaps because it was his first in almost a year. Besides, let us not forget that while Coleman is 4-4 in his last 8 fights, his loses are to Fedor(twice) Crocop and Nogueira…not exactly a bunch of chumps, in fact many may say they make up the top 3 HW in the world.

Why was Randleman fighting Shogun? Maybe because he lost to Coleman via injury and Pride is looking to hype some hostility between the two camps…whatever you want to say about Randleman, he comes to fight, not lay on someone, and watching him suffer thru those ankle locks and then knee bar without tapping until absolutely necessary was painful.

PRIDE is still a Japanese production even though they held it here in America and certain aspects of it will be directed towards that audience(like the intros and the announcers) but watching it live, I must say it was was the best production I have ever seen. An absolutely awesome experience which I will probably repeat when they come back in February.

Also, the public workouts in front of Ceasars were badass, giving the fans a lot of exposure and access to the athletes…Pride will do just fine here in America, it is the UFC that needs to watch their ass with their weakass cards and bullshit paydays to subpar talent. [/quote]

Thank you Slimjim for setting this thread on the right course.

Firstly Pride has taken a big leap and having 10K in attendence for their first American show during a time where MMA is still in its growing faze and not yet “mainstream” is impressive to say the least.

I hear many fellow Americans complaining about the culture differences. I find that we tend to be very culturally centric, often mocking someone’s broken English as if our comedy, our language, our culture, and our preferences are the only ones of merit in this world. Maybe it’s because I have been interested in Japanese culture since I was 13, or maybe it’s because I can step out and appreciate different brands of comedy and culture. It really isn’t that odd.

The Japanese accept much of Americana, from cinema to music, and seem happy to appreciate the differences. You think J-Pop is cheesy? Have you ever heard a Ashlee Simpson, Blacked Eyed Peas, or a whole slew of American pop music? Hell I would say our taste of entertainment is at a all time low, lol. I love the announcing, I love the theatrics, I think Randy Couture said during Shockwave 2004 that he got goosebumps when the fighters would come out. How is that like WWE? Are these not the greatest fighters fighting the greatest fights? There is nothing wrong with some entertainment, it let’s us get a better understanding of these fighters and to know them a bit better. The UFC is similiar to the WWE in the way they pay their talent, lol.

I see it as a growing phase, when you are new to the sport you just want to see random brawls, but time after time of viewing you can notice the subtle differences. I would rather watch a Cro Cop fight than a Leben.

Plus, people banging on Coleman, the guy has some heart and remember his competition is fierce, Hammerhouse may be stuck in the past like Lions Den, but those are some of the funniest/fun guys.

I watch the TUF show, but I don’t for one minute think the guys on there could go mano a mano with the best in the world. I think UFC is bringing in so many newcomers because it saves MONEY, the majority of these guys are not very talented at all, but some are.