T Nation

Preworkout and Possible Chest Pain


#21

Great thanks for the above. I finally got a read out of it.

It happens that a number of years ago, the last time I had any chest pain, I had bought myself my first automatic coffee machine and didn’t have a better sense straight off than to gorge a bit.

Well, what do you know, I was alarmed after a while with chest pain. I called 911 and ended up with a paramedic team telling me my heart is nicely strong.

I am thinking that this one off episode, sort of removed over a long time from just above, if it really is coronary artery vasospasm, might not crimp me too badly if I just stay away from the Mr. Hyde. Might I be in a good position to use another product I am already familiar with when I train on Monday?

Anyway, I will wait until I actually get an in person doctor’s view before I do/don’t do anything next with my bottle.


#22

Yo. If you are having chest pains from Mr. Hyde then you need to stop right away.
I used that preworkout 3 years ago and I had the same issue. It never gave me any pumps, but hella energy. One day I was warming up for some dead lifts. I only had 135 up, but I pulled it up for one of my reps and blacked out. I came to a few seconds later laying over the bar. I had to stay in the hospital for a few days because the shit almost killed me. The fall only bruised me slightly, but my heart was not doing well at all. My only clue beforehand was chest pain, but I never corelated it to that, until after I stopped and it went away, but instead to allergies.


#23

Wait, I forgot that above Eye Dentist said to actually see a doctor. First thing maybe tomorrow, or if it is what it takes Monday.


#24

The saga continues. I actually went to a doctor this morning, and came with a word processed printout of exactly what the history of this is, and a printout of the ingredient list for Hyde.

that doctor made an appointment for Monday the 18th for a stress test and that sort of thing. He said then that if I am having pain, to go to emergency.

You see the thing is not actual pain, but ever since Monday I have had a slightly tight feeling in my chest. Not bad, just that I notice something.

So I went afterwards to the hospital. Same printouts, they ran some tests they had available, but the more involved stuff wasn’t available on the weekend. so I was told. I got an appointment for this Thursday to see a nearby clinic, and hopefully I am off to the races. I will have to see, and in the meantime I am off hard exertion, and presumably preworkouts. I am still on Creatine and whey, but you know what I mean.


#25

I’m glad you visited a doctor.

I hope it’s nothing serious.

Good luck bro and keep us posted.


#26

You may or may not be right about the caffeine at least in and of itself being the issue. What I read on the ingredients is that it also has choline bitartrate, tyrosine, a piddly small dose of theacrine, and yohimbe all of which are stimulating. Combine that with nearly half a gram of caffeine and it’s not hard to see how this could cause some people some issues.

From my experience with those ingredients in different combinations and some by themselves, I’d imagine I’d be pretty cracked out before lifting and if I wasn’t having chest pain before the training session, I sure would during and long while after.


#27

I know few gym brahs that were always daring eachother to take 2 scoops of pre workout instead of 1…

And they were also often taking it too.

I personally don’t understand that mentality, but each to their own. I’m just waiting to see people taking meth or crack as pre workout xD


#28

To reiterate the proper perspective, I have for the longest time let’s say taken 2 cups of coffee for breakfast (based on one scoop of grounds a little above flush with the edges, I don’t know how else to quantify it), spent another 15 minutes finishing breakfast/preworkout, and then time an hour before I take any preworkout formula.

I could take at that point a full scoop of let’s say Musclepharm wreckage, which has 300mg of caffeine, feel stimulated but be really fine.

Or I might have 1 cup of coffee for breakfast, and when I get around to a preworkout and it is Mutant Madness, which has on the label 375 mg net caffeine, the same thing.

The issue I am journalizing here is 2 cups of coffee, and over an hour later a 3/4 scoop of American formula Mr. Hyde, which is about 300mg of caffeine right there, but then I have chest pain later in the day. the Canadian formula even on the odd occasions I took a full scoop as opposed to 3/4, was fine.


#29

Why in the world do you feel like your body needs or wants so much caffeine?

It can make it easier for you to overtrain and also increases your chances of not getting enough sleep for proper recovery. In case you have goals of building muscle.

Only fitness benefits it provenly has is for weight loss.

And high doses of that stuff also provenly have side effects.

So you feel energetic (actually your brain thinks you aren’t tired when you actually are). We all know that no ammount of caffeine can replace actual sleep, but it has some downsides and only slight benefits. And it’s possibly harming your health (actually it probably is at this dosages) - so why keep taking it?


#30

I am reasonable in the sense that I don’t have later in the day intake. I hadn’t really thought my overall amount was too high. hell, Starbucks sells their medium and it has 335mg right there. It is as pervasive in our society just as much as girls wanting to walk around dressed like Britney Spears.

If I don’t take other caffeine on exercise days, might I stay reasonable? I even bought a couple of bottles of a caffeine free preworkout so that when I get busier with work and have to train PM I should not be buggering my sleep.


#31

That’s smart thing to do.
In my country there’s just 1 more known stimulans free preworkout, and It’s more like just creatine with amino acids.

That’s huge ammount of caffeine for a medium coffee… In Europe on most places coffee has around 60-80mg per cup.
Some don’t even hit 60mg.


#32

What year do you think it is?


#33

What I’m saying is that caffeine in combination with all the other stimulants in the formula has additive, synergistic, and/or multiplicative effects. There’s more than caffeine in there that has stimulant effects.


#34

I know, they want to grow up instantly. Girl Power!


#35

So it happens today i went to an actual cardiologist. I had the initial consultation, and had word processed a complete account of events, as well as the labels of American formula Mr. Hyde, together with other products I have either tried or have in waiting to open.

He said he thought it wasn’t a vasospasm, more likely just a reaction to too much stimulants. Anyway, he nixed right then and there any more Mr. Hyde. I am near the top of the bottle…damn. i don’t suppose someone wants to buy the rest, who knows if a hair or piece of snot got in it, anyone wouldn’t know even if I do.

He also cleared me to get back to exercise, just to start off at 25%, see how that goes, and then in subsequent days increase as I seem to be able to handle. I can go back to preworkouts I have already done well with, it is just that MAN Sports Blockbuster he saw the label for and reserved judgement as to whether i can go at it with a half scoop.

I lucked out in that I was there first thing in the day and they had an opening for both of a stress test and an ultrasound.

For the stress, they had me walk on a treadmill with a monitor the was connected to all sorts of probes around my chest. every once in a while they took a blood pressure. The monitor transmitted to a computer that had all sorts of graphs. At one point I was 130/80, then they had me at a faster walk and a little incline, then slower again, and later I came out as 140/80. After a few minutes that was done and I switched rooms for the ultrasound.

for that the tech had probes again and a small device he moved with his hand using lubricating gel… He had me flat on my back, then on my side. At times he had me stop breathing and then continue. Eventually it was done.

I went to the waiting room, and the doctor gave the clerk notice that I was fine. In August I am back to get a heart monitor which I will wear for a few weeks, and then I am back to see the doctor in September, and if nothing comes out then, I am probably in the clear.

I get the inkling right now I am anyway.


#36

I understand that you’re trying to help, and DeadKong could probably do with a break from stimulant use (or, at least, a decrease in consumption), but you’re currently disseminating incorrect information, and that’s not good for other (uninformed) readers who may not know better.

This is simply not true. Overtraining is not a problem that beginners should be meaningfully concerned about. Moreover, ‘overtraining’ or not is a programming issue, not a supplementation issue. If the program calls for excessive volume, then you will overtrain. No amount of caffeine will make overtraining ‘likely’ when you are following a smart routine.

Yes, caffeine intake near bedtime will decrease the quality of sleep. However, cutting caffeine 6-8 hours before sleep will result in sleep quality being unaffected.

This is also completely false. Here’s a meta-analysis showing the positive effects of caffeine on muscular strength and endurance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20019636

Not to mention that, insofar as caffeine will stimulate the CNS and ‘wake you up’, you are likely to have better sessions over time, and thus progress more effectively.

You seem to have a caffeine intolerance of sorts (I saw your thread). However, for those who do not share the intolerance, caffeine is a smart stimulant/ergogenic aid and, when used responsibly, will augment the effects of a training programme.


#37

So, I went back to the cardiologist the other week and got some feedback on a holter monitor I wore for two days. A few extra beats, but nothing sinister. I will go back in mid September for another, more intensive stress test, and failing anything coming of that an appointment in February just to be sure.

Anyway, did I score well with supplements or what? When the Hyde thing hit me back in June, I eventually contacted the web retailer and said the level of stimulant blindsided me as compared to the Canadian formula I had tried before. that and another product I got a mystery price on that was even more extreme I asked them to refund me on. Also, a good deal on some BCAAs that I think had some support ingredient that makes my chest feel tight I eventually shipped back. It cost me to send it, and I only got some of my money back, but I grant I have to take a hit too.

Even though they were gracious about it, I found out next order they resent me. Or so it seems. I got a sweet deal on a 10lb of whey, and the deal was to throw in a t-shirt, a deluxe bag of samplers, another sampler package, plus the usual 2 samplers with purchase. Interesting thing, the courier tracking page called the shipment barely over 1lb. ?

I pointed this out to them, and it was agreed it sounded odd. I eventually got a t-shirt, a shitty approximation of the samplers, and not 10lb of whey. So they said they would fix me up with the correct thing, and a detail of 11 other samplers.

time dragged on, and the shipment never got to the point at which the courier FOBs it off to Canada Post, a usual sign it is getting close. Meanwhile, I made my next purchase. I got a buy one get one free on a bottle of BCAAs, and a buy 2 get one free on Creatine monohydrate (and two samplers). So that one shipped…and I waited. After that got to about a week and it didn’t update with anything looking like progress, I emailed.

they said DHL had misshipped an entire pallet of theirs. they didn’t mention the second box. Don’t worry, I would be fixed up. Eventually I called, and thought I was getting the full torso.

The man I spoke with affected a deliberate southern accent and said I would have it literally within 48 hours. He then said he would make the customs value $3, because everyone likes ripping off the government, right? I felt I had nothing to do but hope he would produce.

Lo and behold, the same time the next day DHL shows up…and…hit me COD with $23.39 in customs. So I was left at the door realizing to pay it.

What I got was the essential order, another t-shirt, and 29 names for sampler packs. (16 of whey isolate, 8 of a fairly benign, at least by the label preworkout, and an amino energy thing in 5 units.) I decided to call myself reasonably happy. I did email a copy of the customs paper, just so I told them, I guess. Any other time I order it is the longest and cheapest shipping option, and everything gets taken care of at time of purchase.

Guess what happened today? Actually yesterday, I took the notice to the post office today. I get home and it is the original 2 BCAAs and 3 Creatine bottles. (and 2 samplers). God damn!

In all honesty I told them about it. I was told it came back after shipping wrong and it got relabelled and sent out again. I had thought when the postie actually knocked it was someone casing for a burglary. I asked what to do with it. I was told I could have it, unless I have other ideas. I answered I don’t have other ideas, unless you do. At the end I was welcome to have it free.

Do note that if they had said to box it up again and wait for DHL at their cost I would have obliged. Still, that $23.39…


#38

I am not using as much stimulant as I had previous to this whole thing. If I have my old usual (assuming not a preworkout taking day) 3 cups per day, I might end up with a tight feeling in my chest, and palpitations the next day.

I actually got a sweet buy one get one free deal on another preworkout that has 190mg of caffeine, and only 100mg of choline bitartrate. I used it last Wednesday and had slight chest pain later on, just not on the same scale. palpitations the next day. I am going to put it on ice and see if in a month or so I can take it and have my sensitivity reduced to the point it is tolerable. Failing that I will just sell the unopened to someone.

still, I have other products.


#39

So, a conclusion to this thread.

First, I actually had another problem. It seems I am loaded with reams of them. A week ago Saturday, I was going on a walking trip someplace and wanted some energy. I had already had caffeine for the day, but wasn’t going to the expense of my caffeine free preworkout. So i figured to take BCAAs and decided my old supply of beta alanine I hadn’t touched in a few months was the recipe.

20 minutes after taking it, I felt strangely over stimulated, and then noticed strong palpitatons and a few sharp pains. FUCK!

So today I was at the cardiologist’s office for a more involved stress test and echo. It went like this:

they had me first take my shirt off and an ultrasound was done on my heart. After that,
they shaved my chest a bit to put on an independent holter monitor. the monitor transmitted to a computer, and I was on a treadmill with a blood pressure sleeve on. My beginning pressure was 110/64. I started at a slow walk, and a couple of minutes later I came out as 120/60. The speed and incline picked up and then it was 150/60. they asked if I felt off in my chest, but I said I was fine. After 7 minutes, it stopped and I immediately went over for another echo. So they did that. I at the very end had another pressure, I just forget what it was.

I consulted with the doctor, who said I am perfectly normal, none of the blood vessels of the heart are off and my contractions are normal. I asked if my stimulant sensitivity would eventually drop, but she said no. I then asked might I take a different preworkout with lower amounts of caffeine and choline bitartrate than I had with the stuff that caused this whole issue in the first place. She said that in time I could experiment with what I find I can tolerate. So, I got a good deal on the stuff, and I don’t have to throw it out.

there will be another due diligence follow up in February, but it seem this thread is over.


#40

Is it worth it though? Just throw the shit out if it’s fucking with you. There’s nothing magical about pre-workouts