T Nation

Presidential Pardons

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_pardons

Ok, I am not here to bash Bush or any other President for that matter on this point. However, when I look at most of Bush’s pardons (above link), most of them look random. It would probably be the same if I looked at Clinton’s or any other President’s pardons. Has anybody here studied this matter? Why do President’s make most of these pardons? Are they made for helping out friends of friends?

How do pardon’s work anyway?

How can the executive just say that the judicary has applied the law correctly but nah-uh set the criminal free?

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
entheogens wrote:
…It would probably be the same if I looked at Clinton’s…

You have a short memory.[/quote]

I don’t have a short memory, because I never investigated who or why Clinton pardoned. I do know, from the article cited, that he pardoned many more people than Bush has.

As I said, I am not looking to bash anybody here, just wanting to know what is the motivation behind the majority of these pardons.

Mercy, and good will.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
entheogens wrote:
pushharder wrote:
entheogens wrote:
…It would probably be the same if I looked at Clinton’s…

You have a short memory.

I don’t have a short memory, because I never investigated who or why Clinton pardoned. I do know, from the article cited, that he pardoned many more people than Bush has.

As I said, I am not looking to bash anybody here, just wanting to know what is the motivation behind the majority of these pardons.

You don’t remember the Clinton pardon scandal, the last of a long series of Clinton skullduggeries committed during his terms in office?

Maybe it wasn’t actually the last one; Hillary stealing the White House china and rugs at checkout time was the final one, I guess.[/quote]

Doood!

Why’re you trying to start a fight? The OP is just curious as to the reasons for any president to give pardons.

I think that you’re just upset at the thought of Secretary of State Clinton.

well theres the expected list of tax evaders, bank embezzlers, and environmental polluters.

but pardons for drug dealers, coke heads, and welfare cheats?

i though this guy was supposed to be a social conservative.

whats next, amnesty?

The president can pardon anyone, at any time, and it is final. The pardon or commutation cannot be overuled.

Also, if I could add my .02, Persident Bush will seriously disapoint me if he doesn’t pardon agents Ramos and Compean. You can sign the pardon petition here: http://www.americaiswatching.org/BorderAgents.html

Seeing this now, and knowing that Obama will be president in the near future, this gives me hope that I will be granted a presidential pardon.

[quote]Spry wrote:
How do pardon’s work anyway?

How can the executive just say that the judicary has applied the law correctly but nah-uh set the criminal free?[/quote]

Most all pardons are recieve long after being released from prison. There is usually an application and requirements that have to be met. As well as multiple personal referances. You don’t hear of many pardoned people reoffending.

Bush is a big Fugees fan.

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[quote]entheogens wrote:
pushharder wrote:
entheogens wrote:
…It would probably be the same if I looked at Clinton’s…

You have a short memory.

I don’t have a short memory, because I never investigated who or why Clinton pardoned. I do know, from the article cited, that he pardoned many more people than Bush has.

As I said, I am not looking to bash anybody here, just wanting to know what is the motivation behind the majority of these pardons.[/quote]

You want memory? You want motivation? You want topical? Look no further:


"Many quids and many quos were mooted by these investigations (still incomplete at the time of writing) though perhaps not enough unambivalent pros. You can’t say that about the Marc Rich and other pardons?the vulgar bonanza with which the last Clinton era came to an end. Rich’s ex-wife, Denise Rich, gave large sums to Hillary Clinton’s re-election campaign and to Bill Clinton’s library, and Marc Rich got a pardon. Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory, convicted of bank fraud, hired Hillary Clinton’s brother Tony and paid him $250,000, and they got a pardon. Carlos Vignali Jr. and Almon Glenn Braswell paid $400,000 to Hillary Clinton’s other brother, Hugh, and, hey, they, respectively, got a presidential commutation and a presidential pardon, too. In the Hugh case, the money was returned as being too embarrassing for words (and as though following the hallowed custom, when busted or flustered, of the Clinton-era DNC). But I would say that it was more embarrassing to realize that a former first lady, and a candidate for secretary of state, was a full partner in years of seedy overseas money-grubbing and has two greedy brothers to whom she cannot say no.

from:

So far, Bush’s efforts pale in comparison.

“Pardon” me, but what exactly are you people discussing here?

I just kill me sometimes…

Presidential pardons piss me off, regardless of which party is making them. It smacks of favoritism and unequal justice, and it is wrong that a President can do it at the end of his term to avoid negative repercussions.

This is interesting and explains what people think the founding fathers intent was.

I do not think in the time we live pardons are necessary, but then again I didn’t write the constitution.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
entheogens wrote:
pushharder wrote:
entheogens wrote:
…It would probably be the same if I looked at Clinton’s…

You have a short memory.

I don’t have a short memory, because I never investigated who or why Clinton pardoned. I do know, from the article cited, that he pardoned many more people than Bush has.

As I said, I am not looking to bash anybody here, just wanting to know what is the motivation behind the majority of these pardons.

You want memory? You want motivation? You want topical? Look no further:


"Many quids and many quos were mooted by these investigations (still incomplete at the time of writing) though perhaps not enough unambivalent pros. You can’t say that about the Marc Rich and other pardons?the vulgar bonanza with which the last Clinton era came to an end. Rich’s ex-wife, Denise Rich, gave large sums to Hillary Clinton’s re-election campaign and to Bill Clinton’s library, and Marc Rich got a pardon. Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory, convicted of bank fraud, hired Hillary Clinton’s brother Tony and paid him $250,000, and they got a pardon. Carlos Vignali Jr. and Almon Glenn Braswell paid $400,000 to Hillary Clinton’s other brother, Hugh, and, hey, they, respectively, got a presidential commutation and a presidential pardon, too. In the Hugh case, the money was returned as being too embarrassing for words (and as though following the hallowed custom, when busted or flustered, of the Clinton-era DNC). But I would say that it was more embarrassing to realize that a former first lady, and a candidate for secretary of state, was a full partner in years of seedy overseas money-grubbing and has two greedy brothers to whom she cannot say no.

from:

So far, Bush’s efforts pale in comparison.[/quote]

True. I think Clinton had close to 150 pardons and 34 or so commutations. Bush mach1 had a similar amount if memory serves. Bush 2.0 seems a little stingy in his doling out of pardons. Normally the pardons and the commutations are handed out to people that have some tie to the president’s party or are some type of relation like Roger Clinton was. The opposite side is never pleased with the results of the process and whines incessantly about it. Clinton’s been gone for 8 years and you’d think he and Marc Rich were spotted the other night outside a nightclub blowing a fattie in the back seat of a limo.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Because entheogens is an e-bud of mine and he can handle it and he seemed as though he was ready to rumble.

[/quote]

Push, obviously my brain is showing signs of the abuse I have put it through. Now that you refresh my memory, I do recall those questionable pardons.

Glad you consider me an e-bud, because I hold you in high esteem.

Bush’s use of the pardon power continues to be more conservative and less objectionable than his predecessors.

A sentence I never thought I’d write