[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
If the Nazis were really Socialists, then they might have found a natural alliance with the Soviet Union, or at least had some sort of non-aggression treaty. Of course, that’s not how it went.
Sure it did, in 1939 they had a non-aggression treaty to partition Poland. Was in place until the Nazis cornered Britian and then moved against the Soviets. It was how Hitler was able to take western europe without worrying about being attacked by Russia in the east.[/quote]
Calling Nazi Germany socialist is the same as calling today’s China Communist. It doesn’t stand close scrutiny.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Brad61 wrote:
If the Nazis were really Socialists, then they might have found a natural alliance with the Soviet Union, or at least had some sort of non-aggression treaty. Of course, that’s not how it went.
Sure it did, in 1939 they had a non-aggression treaty to partition Poland. Was in place until the Nazis cornered Britian and then moved against the Soviets. It was how Hitler was able to take western europe without worrying about being attacked by Russia in the east.
Calling Nazi Germany socialist is the same as calling today’s China Communist. It doesn’t stand close scrutiny.[/quote]
They saw themselves as socialists, they called themselves socialists, they implemented socialist measures.
What else does one have to do to be called a socialist?
edit:
Party spokesman Joseph Goebbels insisted in 1932 that the NSDAP was a “workers’ party” and “on the side of labor and against finance”.[33] Hitler said of the Nazis: “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance”;[34] however, he was clear to point out that Nazism “has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism,” saying that “Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not.”[35] He further said that “I absolutely insist on protecting private property… we must encourage private initiative”.[36] Nevertheless, he wanted property to be regulated to make sure “benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual”.[37] Attacks were made on what Hitler called “pluto-democracy,” which was claimed to be a conspiracy by Jews to favor democratic parties in order to keep capitalism intact.[38]
[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
This post involves a lot of spin.
[/quote]
Thanks for the warning…
[quote]
Many business men were angry with roosevelt. He basically was a socialist. His laws requiring accurate labeling, food safety and labor regulations can be praised by almost all, but his social security, business regulations at the corporate level and meddling in private affairs left a bitter taste in many mouths.
At their root, many of his policies were anti-democratic, anti-free market and ultimately anti-american. [/quote]
Roosevelt is easily one of the most popular presidents in American history. He served three terms and could have won a fourth term. He pulled America out of the (Republican) Great Depression. He won the 2nd World War. He ended the era of the corporate Robber Barons. He certainly made some mistakes too, but the mistakes weren’t setting up America’s social safety net… That’s probably the reason your Grandma isn’t out turning tricks right now. We’re talking about a small group of millionaires who wanted to overthrow the government and end democracy in America, in order to protect their own fortunes. That is treason by any definition.
[quote]orion wrote:
They saw themselves as socialists, they called themselves socialists, they implemented socialist measures.
What else does one have to do to be called a socialist? [/quote]
True.
However, if one looks up a definition “Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and movements which claim to improve society through collective and egalitarian action;” (Wiki) You quickly realize that their actions were not exactly egalitarian. I mean, they burned people they didn’t like and that’s by definition, not socialism. Yes, they were self-proclaimed anti-capitalist and anti-communist. But that doesn’t make them socialists in my eyes.
Let’s call it Nazism. That’s the most accurate and concise term one can use to describe their ideology.
[quote]Brad61 wrote:
Roosevelt is easily one of the most popular presidents in American history. He served three terms and could have won a fourth term. He pulled America out of the (Republican) Great Depression. He won the 2nd World War. He ended the era of the corporate Robber Barons. He certainly made some mistakes too, but the mistakes weren’t setting up America’s social safety net… That’s probably the reason your Grandma isn’t out turning tricks right now. We’re talking about a small group of millionaires who wanted to overthrow the government and end democracy in America, in order to protect their own fortunes. That is treason by any definition.
I think I lost IQ points reading your post. [/quote]
Republican depression? Please. Let me get this straight. If it involves money it is a republican issue? Better warn Soros, he might have to give his away. Same thing with Corzine.
FDR is the root of our problems today. The New Deal Dems of the 30’s,40’s and 50’s are the Great Society idiots of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s.
He was the most fascist president we have ever had. He controlled everything from how much sugar you could buy to telling individuals when they could buy new tires for their cars.
Granted - that was wartime rationing, but I wonder how much cryin’ and bitching pro-terrorist america haters like you and others would do if you were rationed on how many soy double lattes you could buy.
FDR was the grandfather of our current entitlement/spoiled society.
He packed the court. I think he even wanted to increase the number of USSC justices in an attempt to tighten is power even further.
He was one of the worst things for America, while at the same time, one of the best. Should he have been assassinated, or overthrown? No - but at the same time he fucked us good - which should be punishable. But then again, Carter and LBJ never had to face jail time for their idiocy.
Roosevelt is easily one of the most popular presidents in American history. He served three terms and could have won a fourth term. He pulled America out of the (Republican) Great Depression. … [/quote]
This is not true. If anything his policies served to lengthen the Great Depression. He certainly did much to help out the poorest of the poor but he did not pull us out of it.
I give him credit for his opposing facism but I wish he would have recognized communism as just a great an evil.
The times certainly gave him the opportunity to be considered great. He did some great things and he made some great mistakes.