T Nation

Preparing for First Time

Pharma
#1

Hey everyone

This is my first post on T-Nation but I’ve been lurking/reading/searching for quite awhile.
Great site with a wealth of info…sometimes pretty funny too!

I’m 31 years old 5’11" 195 lbs at the moment…I’ve been lifting since I was about 15 yrs old.
Thoughout high school and my early 20’s I was in pretty good shape…not probodybuilder shape but I could take my shirt off women would comment on my hot body. I believe I’m a natural mesomorph with decent genetics. I’ve been working as a landscaper for over 12 years…my job includes a lot of manual labor and often times in spring and early summer I work 12 hour days-6 days a week. I got married and had 2 children and due to time constraints I took a sabatical from lifting for 3 yrs. Those last three years my weight seasonally flucuated during my off time in the winter-when I stay home and watch the kids. I would gain weight and shed weight once I went back to work. I deceided a while ago this winter would be different. I got a membership to a local gym and have been training hard and eating what I think better.

My daily diet usually consists of a cup of coffee with 2 packs of oatmeal - I hit the gym for an hour (20 min cardio warm up, 40 lifting) Drink a protein shake (52 gram protein) have another cup of coffee. Typically lunch would be a Turkey Burger/boneless chicken patty on double protein wheat bread. Dinner is a wildcard as its the only meal with variety but I try to stay sensible. usually I’ll eat something a couple hours later like a tunafish sandwich or have a hard boiled egg. I take a daily vitamim thats all for supplements.

My main goal honestly is to look good with my shirt off as I’m always outdoors whether at work, the beach, the boat or on my motorcycle. My wife says I look good now but just a little more muscle would set me off.

So my input I seek regards,training,diet and pharma.
First is plan wrong? Is it unwise to bulk when I’m not completely cut the way I want to be this summer. I figure I’m eating for mass but I not really interested in putting on huge amounts of fat as well. Or should I just be killing it on the treadmill and pretty much diet hardcore no protein shakes-with lifting taking a backseat to cardio or not lifting at all. Second would be timing of cycle…I would like my peak physical condition to be at the heart of summer- mid-June/July.

My best guess from the searches I’ve done are to start a 8 week cycle April 1 st of 500mg of Test of some sort, not yet deceided what kind I can actually get - co-ordering with a buddy online and I’m going through him. I am sort of prone to acne, my skin is clear now but I’m half Austrian and half Filipino, the latter contributing to oily skin to begin with. So I’m looking for obviously low side effects. I would consider about any cycle I guess…possibly something small to see how my body reacts.Deca/Anavar -Test/Deca-Dbol/anavar-anavar/winny…etc- Well thanks for reading my post…feel free to roast me if I’m way off base and need a reality check, I’m not the sensitive type.

#2

Why in gods name would you cut out lifting weights and protein shakes if you were trying to cut body fat? All you would do is lose fat AND MUSCLE, at least maintain as much muscle as is possible whilst cutting bodyfat…

Anyways, depending on your body fat percentage and how much fat you want to lose; it is a decent idea to get lean prior to ‘bulking up.’ The prevailing opinion on here now is you do not have to add a lot of body fat when you are ‘bulking up,’ it is considered just additional time and energy you have to spend later taking the additional fat off.

Give us some more specifics, your height, body weight, current training regiment, your lifting numbers; and if you wanted to throw a picture up of you with your shirt off (face blurred) and one of your legs you would get a lot more helpful information. Seriously, that last bit (the pictures) will allow us to assess more accurately what you can/should do…

#3

oh, sorry, you are 5’11 and 195lbs… tell us about them lifts and your workout routine

#4

390fc_ORIG-before_pic.jpg1296×968 385 KB

Ok trying to upload a couple pics to give a general idea of what I’m working with…
I guess my reasoning on stop lifting would be my limited daily time at the gym…I have a little over an hour a day to get in ‘do work’ then get home so my wife can get to work. I work out five days a week.

My workout consists of 15 minute warm up on a treadmill fast walk…I stretch and begin lifting. I’ve split my days into chest/biceps - legs/abs - back/triceps - shoulders/traps - cardio day. I target the major muscle groups with 3 different exercises doing 4 sets of 10 of weight I can lift with good form.
My overall strength and muscle mass is in my back and shoulders (from years of slave work manual labor). I feel my chest needs the most attention and added mass. A six pack of course would be awesome but not at the top of my goals.

When I return to work in about a month I usually cut weight pretty quickly…due to me burning lots of calories and making my lunch in the morning.

I would like to figure out a proper cycle as my buddy is ordering soon and I’m pretty much giving him the money…so he can get it shipped to his house hahaha.

Heres pics - I have let myself go a bit…

#5

pic 2

#6

another pic…I’ve never done any juice ever and have no known medical problems.

Considering…

6 weeks of Sustanon at 500 mg - tapering to 250 mg last 2 weeks

or

6 week Deca/Dbol stack …first and last week of Deca 250mg - 500mg weeks 2-5 , Dbol 2 tabs a day, 3 tabs day week 3 & 4 (10 mg pills)

or ???

#7

Why the fuck would you taper to 250mg the last 2 weeks?

Also the way you are writing it sounds like you were planning on injecting sustanon once per week… how often are you thinking of injecting?

Don’t do deca/d-bol. Thats retarded. Where is the test at in that?

Deca for 6 weeks is not even very effective, and will shut you down for a long time…

Again with the tapering idea on the deca “first and last week of Deca 250mg”

You have till April or whenever to research, so you better get to it, because from this you don’t understand shit.

I personally think, eat more.

I know you work long hours, probably get few breaks, as my dad is in the same situation on his job and cannot eat as often as he should. But at least get some shakes in during the day. If you want to lose fat small meals every 2-3 hours that you are awake.

Also WHY THE FUCK would you think cutting out protein shakes after training would help you lose fat?

You don’t need steroids, you need to get your diet AND training better.

Considerably better. Because right now your training is pretty bad. 4 sets of 10 on 3 exercises, with a weight you can lift with good form. Well, I can bench 135 with good form, but I can also bench 450 with good form. Saying “with good form” doesn’t mean shit. Theres just too many things that are either terrible, or that you forgot to mention that make it sound retarded to cover here.

I can PM you some training advice if you want, but I am sure that at this point, not training like an idiot, and eating better would get you where you want to go.

#8

Is this an elaborate troll thread?

#9

Thanks for the replies…haha what’s a troll thread? Nevermind , I think I get the jist. The idea behind cutting out the protein shakes I guess comes from the label - not to used as a weight loss supplement. An example if my training would be decline bench, incline bench, cable crossovers - 4 sets of 10 - using a weight I can finish all the reps - for benching it’s 225 - cables around 100 lbs. Then I’d do triceps 4 sets 3 different rope pulldowns, skull crushers, dips. I appreciate the input . I’m not surprised by the response and kinda figured my diet and training were off. Those proposed cycle actually came of the website my buddy plans on ordering from and it was listed as a ’ beginner bulking ’ cycle. Thanks for the reality check ! I’m going to go back to the drawing board and redo my diet and training outline…

#10

No offense, but I think you need to get the basics of protein supplements down first.

#11

Thanks dude - I got the point. I’m a troll who doesn’t know how to train, eat and had no business being interested in anabolic steroids .

#12

[quote]howardchaz wrote:
Thanks dude - I got the point. I’m a troll who doesn’t know how to train, eat and had no business being interested in anabolic steroids .[/quote]

Why does everyone get their feelings hurt so easily around here?

Dude… you’ve got solid genetics. I can tell from your pics. What you eat before and after your workout isn’t going to hurt you. Have a half gallon of Haggan Daas (sp?) PWO and it won’t be a problem with respect to fat gain. Get your chubby ass back in the gym regularly and you’ll be a stud. If, after that you wanna gear up, have at it.

#13

Your lack of knowledge regarding nutrition and the drugs is unfortunately common, and irritating. That aside, do some research into why using nandrolone decanoate for less than 12 weeks is a bad choice. Also, a lot of people on here are not the biggest proponents of using ‘deca.’

Test cypionate or enenthate at 8+ weeks is a much better cycle than sustanon for 6 weeks. Consider yourself lucky for this bit of spoon fed information:

8 weeks of test cyp/enen at 500mgs a week. First shot is 500mgs of test, then shoot 250mgs every 3rd or 4th day after that. After being on for 8 weeks, allow yourself about 10 days after your last shot and begin taking either nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) at 20mgs a day or clomid (clomiphene citrate) at 100mgs a day. Use those for about 5 weeks afterwards, combined with ZMA at night, and you should be fine.

Granted, you have a lot of benefit to be gained just from training regularly again; and eating better. YOU NEED TO LEARN A LOT MORE, and RESEARCH A LOT MORE prior to putting these potentially harmful hormones into your body.

#14

My feelings aren’t hurt. I literally need to improve my diet and training - and really shouldn’t be thinking of injecting anything yet. Thanks for all the input- it’s definately set me headed in the right direction.

#15

Nice to see someone with an IQ over 25 come around here. Glad you went the right way. Once you redo the diet and training give it some time, and if you aren’t happy with the outcome then come back here and try again.

#16

Also to add-Id be very careful what website to order from when you are ready. From the sounds of it that site you and your buddy were looking into is something to worry about. i dount know why they would suggest 6wk of deca and dbol… Just be careful and know your source

#17

[quote]DaJa wrote:
Also to add-Id be very careful what website to order from when you are ready. From the sounds of it that site you and your buddy were looking into is something to worry about. i dount know why they would suggest 6wk of deca and dbol… Just be careful and know your source[/quote]

Didn’t think of that, but yeah, if they are suggesting shit like that, I would never buy from them.

If you google it, then I am sure you can find a board that is allowed to discuss sources, and from that you can find a good one…

#18

Yeah the site seemed pretty suspect, I told my buddy ‘you think this fuckin place is legit? They got misspelled words everywhere!’ LOL . In retrospect I’m glad I didn’t order anything. Thanks again guys

#19

Well first off some guys get offended because you guys are dicks! Give advice. Here is mine. OP you are taking a huge step.I personally feel you are not knowlegable enough yet to make this step. It took me 1 full year of reading night after night digging for info. When I was done there were very few questions to ask. Back then there were some good guys like Cortes and Bushy who would help. Bushy still is around but I think he is burned out from answering the same stuff over and over.

-Read, get a good source by reading, get a good plan by reading and have everything you need before you start.
-Your workout strength is good enough to make good gains on AAS.
-Looking at your build, screw the lean bulk. Follow the insulin article reciently wrote. Eat a ton of protein.
-Take testosterone and bang the shit out of your old lady daily! God I love TEST!
-One cycle that I am fond of is 30mg Test P and 50mg tren daily in the same slin pin for 12days and 16 off. It is cheap no need for AI. Its to short of a time for supression. I have gained strength steady on this for the last two years. I tried other cycles but keep comming back to this. I have become more vascular but my diet sucks so I am not super lean. I am around your BF%.