T Nation

Pregnenolone = Less Water

Don’t take an AI man, straight up toxic. They’re found to reduce insulin sensitivity and raise systolic BP in men. They also reduce IGF-1 and can mess with your bone density, CV health and lipids. Letting your E2 run high is MUCH better for health than lowering it with breast cancer meds that can have detrimental effects.

High T and high E2 is perfect. If you were low T and high E, that would be a completely different circumstance.

Studies are showing that low T/E2 ratio (13:1 to 15:1) is associatied with a decreased risk of cerebrovasculal disease, while elevated T/E2 ratio (i.e. high T and low E2 from “controlling” your Estrogen) is associated with in an increased risk of up to 400%. That’s why the authors of the study actually recommended for elderly people on TRT to SUPPLEMENT with exogenous E2 in order to bring that ratio down for better protection.

What dose did you go with? Maybe too high a dose?

I want to say I started with 30mg, and then kept lowering it as I felt way too keyed up.

I retried it weeks later at 10mg/day, and just remember it not working. I forget why.

Hmm were you in homeostasis with your testosterone when you took it? No way to know what it was when not isolating for more than one variable. Seems suspicious it would work and then suddenly not; it’s a hormone, not something you can build tolerance to.

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Hm fair point. To be honest when I last tried pregnenolone I was on (a) too high a dose of T and (b) taking an AI and © found out I had crashed my E2, then (d) lowered my T dose lol.

I’ve been much more consistent in my routine this year, only changing my dose once since Feb or so. Maybe worth giving preg another shot.

I agree, but i might not have much choice.

I am starting to think after years of tinkering with different protocols, i need larger peaks to feel something. This also correlates with larger E2 levels. My lowish shbg therefore makes for a large Free E2 pool floating around. Generally, for me, this negates my TRT.

I’m currently at week 7 on 200mg split dailies, planning on trying either Preg or DHEA once I hit 12 weeks – full homeostasis. Will try 25mg for 3 weeks, then I’ll assess if I felt a) better, b) no change, c) worse. If yes to either a or b then I’ll go head and try 50mg and reassess in the same way. I recommend trying out the same thing now you’re in a better circumstance.

Not sure what you mean about “No choice”, do you live in North Korea?

Also, what’s your protocol? Many people with single digit SHBG are on 200mg/week of T and do great. If your FT is below 50 ng/dl, it shouldn’t be an issue. Personally I also need that peak to feel best, that’s why I do daily injections at a high microdose, to have consistent large peaks every day.

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I was a patient of his at a time as well. I really like him personally, and he’s very knowledgeable… My only issue with him besides the high price was that every side effect, or lack of improvement, he wrote off as psychological and wouldn’t adjust my dose or ancillary meds. Still, I knew that protocol looked familiar lol.

For me, it was a starting point when mainstream medicine failed me miserably. He accurately diagnosed my problem as high SHBG and implemented a protocol that addressed it. he was willing to look at Free T, which was something I could never get local docs to do. I also switched local docs at about the same time. I was up front with her with what i was doing and she supported it with additional tests. I think this was important, as she saw how well i was doing and alleviated her fear of prescribing a medication she knew little about. After a few years, I was able to convince her to take over medication management and that cut the cost way down, and no more 200 mile round trips to LA.


What peptides are you using now along with HCG?

Current protocol is 500/250 IPA/CJC-1295 1X per day in the AM on empty stomach then wait 20 minutes to eat. In the evening, I take 25 mg Oral MK-677 before bed.

Past benchmark testing with GH tells me this should keep my IGF-1 levels equivalent to about 1.8 IU of GH per day, which is around 200 ng/mL with an age-adjusted normal range of 50-194 ng/mL (LabCorp). I don’t like age-adjusted ranges, after a little digging on the internet, I found some old ranges for various age groups with the LabCorp test and this is close to the 75th percentile for a 30 year old male.

Can you explain this? The improving thyroid part.

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I logged about it in this thread:

TSH has been on the high-end of normal pre and current TRT, but weirdly my other thyroid stats are pretty good. The only thing is there’s several people with the same TSH levels as me and they report feeling great once they got their FT or DHT high enough, so I’m doubtful it’s what I need.

Current game-plan is to give my 200mg/weekly protocol another 5 weeks, then I’ll go one by one experimenting with DHEA, Preg, Armour medication (if my doc approves), and if none show a positive difference I’ll go ahead and try either 250mg of testosterone split daily or take testosterone creams in the AM and PM.

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I’m gonna go out on a limb here and claim that the Pregnenolone even has suppressed my nagging inflamed nips. Pretty weird

I forgot to ask, do you still take the other supplements Gordon recommended too? Like the b complex with pqq, NAC, etc

It’s been many years since I’ve worked with Dr. G. If I recall, the only supplements he recommended at the time were (zinc + copper), DHEA, pregnenolone, and saw palmetto + pygeum.

I have continued all of the above except for the pygeum. I’m not concerned about my DHT levels, as I am also taking finasteride.

I do take NAC (1200 mg twice per day). The brand i use also contains selenium and molybdenum.

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Interesting read