What are folks’ preferred compounds for a blast on longterm TRT? For a bulk cycle and a cut cycle. Also, what other support do you use both during the blast and post-blast? I.e. liver support, etc…Anyone done a sarm blast on TRT?
When I was blasting I preferred Test Cyp in the 4-500mg range with Masteron in the 3-400mg range or Primo in the 600mg range. Neither combo led me to have E2 issues or performance/ED issues. 19-Nors are great for mass but they didn’t agree with me.
If staying close to TRT is the goal, i believe that best blast would be just to up the test.
I think that if you blast on too much of stuff or different stuff it wont be possible to maintain the gains.
For example - i dont think a 140mgs of TRT will hold gains that were built on 500mgs of test, 350mgs of tren and 50mgs of stanazolol a day.
I think this is a great point. The point Imo of blasting with trt is to get to your potential on TRT faster.
So, I just don’t see the point in using high dosages or harsh compounds. Upping the test a moderate amount works. I like tbol for 4-6 weeks for athletic performance and strength (more rep strength than top end strength). Tbol is also pretty mild.
I’ll use adex on blast in small amounts to keep e2 some what in check. I would not try to stay in range, just bring it down a bit to not get symptoms. I also use finasteride to limit hair loss. I do that in cruise to. Never had negative symptoms with it, but ymmv.
I really think this forum is on to something in terms of when it’s justified to blast and for what.
For years the mantra was to wait with blasts until you are rather close to your natural genetic potential (say 80%). But this begs the question, to what end? You’ll blast to get a bit closer but lose some if it afterwards and you’ll get to 90% with it but if you then continue, you won’t really gain anything that you can keep. Point of diminishing returns.
Then you can go on TRT and with always high test levels you can reach a new genetic potential, the TRT potential. This depends on your TRT dose. If you cruise, it depends on the cruise dose.
But then when you blast to reach that, as hank said, you’ll not gain a lot above that which you can keep.
So only option would be permablasting or higher cruise doses. Talking about the point of diminishing returns, you’ll pay with years of life.
The question stands: when is it appropriate to juice it up?
In my opinion it makes sense in these cases:
You are natural and are NOT very close to your genetic potential but you know how to train and diet. (Does that exist? I’d say there’s enough people who hang around at 50% of their potential even though they know how to train, maybe been training for only 3-5 years). In that case, 1-2 blasts would get you there very quick and you would likely keep a good amount.
You are on TRT and want to get to your new TRT physique potential. A few blasts, rather short or with moderate doses would get you there.
You are a serious Mr. Olympia or National BBing candidate because you got the genetics to look incredible as a natural already.
You are a serious candidate for strength sports.
To give consistent/accurate opinions, could we first clarify a few things?
Just so we’re all on the same page…
- Do you mean going from natty>TRT, from TRT>Blast and Cruise, from natty>blast? (or something else?)
- I think we should clarify if TRT = TT within range (even if top of range) or if we are considering TRT to also mean supraphysiological TT levels, but with average TRT doses.
As a #NattyDaddy with ~7 years serious training experience and ~12 years total gym time, I have some opinions on the subject - I just think clarity would help this conversation greatly.
My opinion, since you asked… options 3 and 4 make sense. In which case I feel like you are also committing to a lifetime of TRT because of it and you are aware of that.
Natural hormone level gym bros should abstain PERIOD. You won’t keep any gains past what you could get naturally IMO. I’ve seen this happen over and over again in the early 2000s in college. Most ended up looking worse after few months post cycle than they did before they started.
This leaves TRT gym bros. I figure if your hormones are already screwed and you want to “dabble” go ahead. I don’t think you will get much more than what long term TRT gets you. Slightly more though . That’s good enough for some. Let me also clarify the guys that don’t understand basic dosage terms, pharmacology, etc should prob just stick with TRT. They could do much harm inadvertently.
In my opinion - if a person does not have a medical reason for TRT, he should start thinking steroids only if he has maxed his genetic potential, and knows how to train and diet so he can get at least skinny if he started fat, and get at least fat if he started skinny. People who train for years and dont really change DONT know how to train and eat.
Then they make a decision - if they want to live the steroid lifestyle and if yes - go ahead.
Imo this is not correct. Natty will gain 90% if his potential in 1,5-2 years if he is doing everything right. The natural max one can gain is like 20-30lbs of lean mass.
I started at 147 and i was 202 three years later(fat of course) and i didnt really know how to train. I just did brosplits and tought protein is the only thing you need.
Now when i am training some people, and i can give them advice i didnt know when i started, i see how rapid the gains are for the first year.
I think the most important part is the food. If a skinny guy is still skinny, he shouldnt think about steroids. I want to see a dude who was skinny and now is at least fat so we know he can eat. And the other way around. A fat dude who is still fat but asks for clen and winstrol is just as bad. Anyone can be just plain skinny or just stupid fat. Even tho those are not the goals, those would be good markers that someone can bulk or cut.
Juice it up = a blast/a cycle.
TRT is defined as within physiological range. Above 1100 ng/dL TRT is called cruising/cruise.
The amount of muscle + leanness you can achieve depends on your off cycle state. Natty < TRT < cruise < permablast. With increasing ability to hold muscle mass and be lean comes exponential cardiovascular risk.
If I understand correctly, you say max out your potential as a natural and then if you want to go further at least blast and cruise or blast and TRT.
I think you are right here. If you are doing everything right from the start, then you should be able to gain IMO a large percentage of what you can gain in 2 years. Maybe not 90, I’d say rather 70-80. But after 5 years you should be at 90% of your potential. I think you are also right that it’s diet mostly that holds people back. But strength wise I see many people really only starting to get to their potential after 4+ years and they are still growing. Not like in the beginning but noticeably. I guess it depends on training style too.
Since if doing everything correct you can get most of your natural gains very fast, i just dont see the point to use steroids before that because in order to maximize steroid gains you need to know a bit of yourself - what training works, what foods work, etc. People cant learn this in 6months but they also cant max their natty gains so fast. By the time you have maxed your genetic potential close to 90% you will also be smart enough to train and eat somewhate correctly.
If someone starts steroids faster, he probably is not experienced enough with food and training, which means that as soon as he stops the blast and even if he gets back on a cruise, he will lose more gains, because its not like you can just do whatever on TRT or a cruise and still maintain all the gains. If someone cant reach their genetic potential they probably wont be able to maintain blast gains on a cruise also.
Wanted to expand on this. So in my personal experience I am prescribed TRT at 140mg/wk but I usually use 160mg as I can edge it up with my script. That puts me at 900-1000 ng/dl after one week but free T is a little poorer due to high SHBG. Either way I cannot hold my blast weight or strength on even this for long. I can prob hold a little more than TRT alone would have gotten me so I would concur you have to blast and then cruise at even higher doses than normal TRT by far to keep upping the threshold.
This is also part of the reason I am exiting the blast and TRT methods I played with. It’s not worth my health to up the ante and am tired of risking it for something that doesn’t stick.
That leaves in the scenario of you for example training a noob and after a year of good training, you juice him up and you tell him exactly what he needs to do.
I know a guy who did this. Looked alright after a year but trained very hard and consistent. Bought himself an expensive trainer, he juiced him up and in 6 months, he looked very very good.
I know you didn’t ask but here are my thoughts on this. That was what I saw in college a lot. Back then you western unioned your funds to China and waited two weeks to “hopefully” get your gear. Anyway, so I saw a lot of guys in their late teens and early twenties who had been working out a couple years and looked “ok”. Then after a few months of the sauce they looked great. The problem is twofold. Some didn’t have the dedication to continue working out so they lost it. Risked their health for nada. Others got depressed during PCT and also gave up similarly. The second though is that even the guys who kept it up and powered through PCT didn’t look much better than before they started if at all.
The guy you mentioned, how does he look 3, 6, and 12 months later?
It’s now been a year since he started. Still looks like his peak form.
The guy may be the exception though, I get your point.
But you shouldn’t juice it up lightly anyways. But I wouldn’t have a problem with what he did and think of done right is better than getting to the natural limit and then cycle on and off.
Wow that surprises me. Although I don’t know enough about the situation to be surprised like if he only did a cycle, continues to juice permanently etc. plus I never believe what most say anyway about their drug use.
Yeah I don’t know exactly either but I think it was a cycle at least from what I observed and know and heard.
That is far from my experience. I should say that I did cycle steroids, and not much of my gains came solely natty. (No PCT. We didn’t know what that was. TRT was not a recognized treatment.) From my starting weight lifting at 19 years old, it took me to 11 years to be close to my potential. Sure I was somewhat of a pioneer throughout years and was not doing the best training principles. I made fairly steady progress, slow but steady, throughout those 11 years.
I would agree with you from my own experience but feel a lot of that depends on how early your physically develop. For me, I was a late bloomer and couldnt put weight on for the life of me until I was mid 20s.
I am not sure if I agree with number 1. With steroids, we see a lot of success stories, gaining 20 lbs of pretty good weight in 12 weeks, but we don’t see the results that are around average (below or a bit above) very often. Many wouldn’t want to report that they gained 5 lbs with all the 20-25 lb gain stories. We don’t hear a lot of post 6 month cycle updates either. I suspect that many that keep gains are still on, or their initial cycle was bigger / longer than it ought to be, so they still only kept a portion, but the portion came from a bigger gain.
I am kinda of the opinion that cycling doesn’t make much sense for most guys. Maybe the top tier genetic guys make it work. Maybe it works if you are sticking to time on = time off, or skewed towards time on.
The other cases make pretty good sense to me. For number 2, I do think it is only worth blasting moderately. It doesn’t make sense to be blasting Tren or 2 grams total, to return to a TRT dose that puts you at an average of 1,000 ng/dL TT. That muscle and strength will fall off over time.
I am kinda with @blshaw. I think I am done tinkering with blasting. I will just stick to my self administered TRT. I just didn’t see the type of results I was looking for with blasting. I am sure the 3 moderate blasts I have done, have done something, but was it worth the long term health effects? IDK.
I’ve seen the guys who have potential, and they start blast and cruise. They all kinda have figured out that moderation doesn’t work. They end up using real performance enhancing dosages (north of a gram, with harsh compounds), or decide to be happy with with a little extra. They all try the 500 mg test, but on a guy with a 700 lb deadlift and 405 lb bench, I haven’t seen big gains. They need a lot to get to the 800 lb deadlift. I have seen this with two guys. The one decided he was happy with the 700 lb pull, and the other blasts a lot to be a bit north of an 800 lb pull. I talk with the latter guy a lot. He seems to be getting out of the big blasts, as he is unsure if it is really worth it. He can be 210 lbs jacked with a 700 lb pull on a TRT dose, or 225 lbs jacked with an 800 lb pull blasting north of a gram. I think he is seeing that the former (TRT look and strength) is enough.