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Predisposed to Gyno: Ancillary & PCT


#1

As of now I am all natural and am working, eating, and sleeping as well as I can to maximize my mass over the next 3 to 6 months before my cycle. I naturally have a pretty big chest with a higher fat content there as opposed to the rest of my body. I plan to do a test e cycle with 250 mg a week when I do finally do the cycle. I am worried about gyno because of my natural makeup. What would you suggest in terms of ancillary as well as PCT regimen? Thanks a bunch


#2

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#3

However assessing your body is one thing I would not waste a cycle with only 250mg/wk.

If you going to shut yourself down you may as well use something that the gains are going to be much more significant with such as 500-800mg/wk. With proper AI use gyno should still be able to be controlled. And if it does start to get out of control the prop will quickly be out of your system.


#4

I agree with all of the above. I also carry a lot of fat in my chest and have a bunch of loose skin there from being super overweight.

I say; don’t stress it and run your cycle. One thing I’ve learnt from reading here is you need to think long term. If you’re like me, you may pull a lot of water on cycle too but again; don’t stress it.

To be honest, once you start seeing the numbers flying up in the gym, combined with the general feeling of well being from being ‘on’, you won’t worry about it.

Make sure your AIs are in place and run only test (I kinda wished I’d run only test since the dbol in my cycle seems to aromatise quite badly). I’ll see how I go when my dbol finishes on Monday. Don’t be afraid to start your AI higher (0.5mg/EOD perhaps).


#5

I saw this over on the other board i am at.

First off, i wouldn’t use prop since it spikes blood levels quickly and can enlist a rather sharp estrogen feedback in the body.

250mg/wk like people said is HRT and not worth it.

I would start with a nice simple 500mg/wk Test Enanthate cycle.

Another thing, gyno is puffy nips. You’ll know gyno when you get it…my god you will.

I was obese as a child and have loose skin on my chest as well. Even when i get around 6% BF i still have it, it goes away when i am dry and depleted.

Just because your nipples don’t cut glass 24/7 doesn’t mean its gyno. It’s simply a little sub-q water.

Gyno hurts, and you’ll know it.

The only way you will know if you are pre-disposed to gyno is

  1. If you had it already as a child…ie: painful lumps that were addressed by an MD

  2. You run a small cycle and it develops.

Having said that, Letro is by far the strongest AI. AI’s tend to trump SERM’s anyday of the week. Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh, .5mg eod should be fine at first as a precaution and .25mg eod would be the bottom dose when/if you have no problems

Like i said, for years i thought i had gyno. Then i got some wicked rebound during PCT once and then i knew right away, i never had it until now


#6

[quote]Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh[/quote]

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.


#7

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex. [/quote]

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.


#8

[quote]Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.[/quote]

In this case studies aren’t needed when one can just look at blood tests.


#9

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.

In this case studies aren’t needed when one can just look at blood tests. [/quote]

You really can’t. At all. Because you don’t know what foods the guy’s eating, how he trains, other supplements, etc.

Most of the studies are done in a control environment. Someone posts up on a forum about his blood levels came back and his cholestrol is through the roof and its gotta be the A-dex.

What he doesn’t tell you is he’s eating burger king 3 days a week and KFC on the weekend.

I’ve seen some big guys that eat like TRASH. IT’s scary.

Either way you don’t really know. All i know is Letro makes my joints scream because 0 estrogen leaves you with no water in your joints.


#10

[quote]Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.

In this case studies aren’t needed when one can just look at blood tests.

You really can’t. At all. Because you don’t know what foods the guy’s eating, how he trains, other supplements, etc.

Most of the studies are done in a control environment. Someone posts up on a forum about his blood levels came back and his cholestrol is through the roof and its gotta be the A-dex.

What he doesn’t tell you is he’s eating burger king 3 days a week and KFC on the weekend.

I’ve seen some big guys that eat like TRASH. IT’s scary.

Either way you don’t really know. All i know is Letro makes my joints scream because 0 estrogen leaves you with no water in your joints.

[/quote]

So are you saying that someone who keeps all the variables consistent but the only thing that changes is the AI used, can not determine that it was the particular AI that had an effect on the lipid profile?

I’m not talking about some dude who eats whatever and is trying to come up with ‘bro-science’ to back up his conclusions. Obviously if someone is eating double dipped chicken wings and pork rinds everyday and blames a poor lipid on Arimidex there is going to a problem. That isn’t even science though. A situtation such as that shouldn’t even be considered in an intelligent conversation.


#11

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#12

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.

In this case studies aren’t needed when one can just look at blood tests.

You really can’t. At all. Because you don’t know what foods the guy’s eating, how he trains, other supplements, etc.

Most of the studies are done in a control environment. Someone posts up on a forum about his blood levels came back and his cholestrol is through the roof and its gotta be the A-dex.

What he doesn’t tell you is he’s eating burger king 3 days a week and KFC on the weekend.

I’ve seen some big guys that eat like TRASH. IT’s scary.

Either way you don’t really know. All i know is Letro makes my joints scream because 0 estrogen leaves you with no water in your joints.

So are you saying that someone who keeps all the variables consistent but the only thing that changes is the AI used, can not determine that it was the particular AI that had an effect on the lipid profile?

I’m not talking about some dude who eats whatever and is trying to come up with ‘bro-science’ to back up his conclusions. Obviously if someone is eating double dipped chicken wings and pork rinds everyday and blames a poor lipid on Arimidex there is going to a problem. That isn’t even science though. A situtation such as that shouldn’t even be considered in an intelligent conversation. [/quote]

I get bloodwork done every 6 months, i have used A-dex for the past 2 years. Never had any cholestrol problems here?

Then again, haven’t used letro since 2005 when i had the rebound gyno, so who really knows?

The bottomline is BB’rs need to take care of their bodies better.

The whole 2 BK Double Cheeseburgers and a 10iu of slin days are gone. And yes, i know some guys who did that.


#13

[quote]Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.

In this case studies aren’t needed when one can just look at blood tests.

You really can’t. At all. Because you don’t know what foods the guy’s eating, how he trains, other supplements, etc.

Most of the studies are done in a control environment. Someone posts up on a forum about his blood levels came back and his cholestrol is through the roof and its gotta be the A-dex.

What he doesn’t tell you is he’s eating burger king 3 days a week and KFC on the weekend.

I’ve seen some big guys that eat like TRASH. IT’s scary.

Either way you don’t really know. All i know is Letro makes my joints scream because 0 estrogen leaves you with no water in your joints.

So are you saying that someone who keeps all the variables consistent but the only thing that changes is the AI used, can not determine that it was the particular AI that had an effect on the lipid profile?

I’m not talking about some dude who eats whatever and is trying to come up with ‘bro-science’ to back up his conclusions. Obviously if someone is eating double dipped chicken wings and pork rinds everyday and blames a poor lipid on Arimidex there is going to a problem. That isn’t even science though. A situtation such as that shouldn’t even be considered in an intelligent conversation.

I get bloodwork done every 6 months, i have used A-dex for the past 2 years. Never had any cholestrol problems here?

Then again, haven’t used letro since 2005 when i had the rebound gyno, so who really knows?

The bottomline is BB’rs need to take care of their bodies better.

The whole 2 BK Double Cheeseburgers and a 10iu of slin days are gone. And yes, i know some guys who did that.

[/quote]

I don’t know if you are on some mission to change the lifestyle of every bodybuilder you ever meet, but it is obvious that your opinions cloud your judgement on objective issues. Try to keep that in mind when you post here.

Saying you haven’t used letro in 4 years means that you have nothing to compare the arimidex too, thus making the whole basis of this debate moot.

“The bottom line is bodybuilders need to take care of their bodies”. What does that have to do with this subject? Obviously people should take care of their bodies. You say your lipid values are fine with adex, great. Some people react more favorably to letrozole. If you wanted to someone to take better care of their body would you still recommend adex to that particular person? Doubtful.


#14

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Big Jay wrote:

Letro can wreak havoc on your sex drive as well as lipid panel but it’s the go-to in estro gyno cases. Arimidex would be a better choice. It’s not as harsh

Letro is nicer on the lipid profile compared to Arimidex.

They are both bad but most of the studies are shown in sedentary women using it for breast cancer treatment. No exercise, etc.

We exercise and eat differently. Shouldn’t be as bad.

Aromasin is an interesting choice and different in it’s mechanism of action. However, i like that for PCT better since it stimulates natural test production.

In this case studies aren’t needed when one can just look at blood tests.

You really can’t. At all. Because you don’t know what foods the guy’s eating, how he trains, other supplements, etc.

Most of the studies are done in a control environment. Someone posts up on a forum about his blood levels came back and his cholestrol is through the roof and its gotta be the A-dex.

What he doesn’t tell you is he’s eating burger king 3 days a week and KFC on the weekend.

I’ve seen some big guys that eat like TRASH. IT’s scary.

Either way you don’t really know. All i know is Letro makes my joints scream because 0 estrogen leaves you with no water in your joints.

So are you saying that someone who keeps all the variables consistent but the only thing that changes is the AI used, can not determine that it was the particular AI that had an effect on the lipid profile?

I’m not talking about some dude who eats whatever and is trying to come up with ‘bro-science’ to back up his conclusions. Obviously if someone is eating double dipped chicken wings and pork rinds everyday and blames a poor lipid on Arimidex there is going to a problem. That isn’t even science though. A situtation such as that shouldn’t even be considered in an intelligent conversation.

I get bloodwork done every 6 months, i have used A-dex for the past 2 years. Never had any cholestrol problems here?

Then again, haven’t used letro since 2005 when i had the rebound gyno, so who really knows?

The bottomline is BB’rs need to take care of their bodies better.

The whole 2 BK Double Cheeseburgers and a 10iu of slin days are gone. And yes, i know some guys who did that.

I don’t know if you are on some mission to change the lifestyle of every bodybuilder you ever meet, but it is obvious that your opinions cloud your judgement on objective issues. Try to keep that in mind when you post here.

Saying you haven’t used letro in 4 years means that you have nothing to compare the arimidex too, thus making the whole basis of this debate moot.

“The bottom line is bodybuilders need to take care of their bodies”. What does that have to do with this subject? Obviously people should take care of their bodies. You say your lipid values are fine with adex, great. Some people react more favorably to letrozole. If you wanted to someone to take better care of their body would you still recommend adex to that particular person? Doubtful.

[/quote]

Dude, listen. You can do whatever you want with my info. You can argue with me all day long but the bottomline is my results speak for themselves.

I can clearly tell you are a younger individual, which there is nothing wrong with. I was JUST like you when i was younger. Why does it have to be this way? Why is that so? How do you know?

Besides that opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.

I am not going to go back and forth running fucking letro, aromasin, a-dex or any other shit. I am going to stick with what works. My basis for what works comes from my results as well as others around me.

If some guy who’s got a room full of steel from shows and hasn’t gone through gyno surgery is telling me he’s had good results with A-dex, am taking that into consideration.

What i can tell you about Letrozole is it was the ONLY thing that shrunk my gyno, in fact it’s gone. Nada…zip…zilch. I tried A-dex at 1mg ed, Raloxifene, and finally just straight Letro at 2.5mg ed. Now maybe taking 1.25mg eod, or even half that dose is fine. Who knows?

All i know is that at 2.5mg ed of Letro. My dick didn’t work, i had raging headaches, and my joints were pleading with me to stop. But my gyno like i said is gone.

So take with that what you like.


#15

Big Jay,

It has been well documented on this forum that excessive Letro (or Adex for that matter) will produce the negative reactions you described. Low dose Letro is reputed to be very effective and not to produce those undesireable sides. I have only used Adex to date, but have read on good authority (Bill Roberts, Brook, etc.) that once you determine your optimal dosage, Letro is a charm.

Just like Adex it is a trial and error endeavor.

Water retention & tender nips = increase dosage

diminished libido & achy joints = decrease dosage

good libido & clarity of mind & none of the above = optimal dosage