T Nation

Pre-Workout Gear Protocol


In light of saps 3-4x per week pre-workout dianabol usage, I was wondering if this might allow the use of larger doses of other types of gear pre-workout and on workout days only, mitigating side effects from extended usage. I was thinking:

100mg tren acetate
100mg anadrol
100mg test suspension

This would be on top of a base cycle, either plain test or test/deca. Say you were doing a 3 or 4 day split, you would either get 3 or 4 days off per week. Would this help mitgate sides? Are the compounds picked optimal or are there better choices? Is tren acetates' halflife too long for this? Are the dosages ok, or would it be better to go higher since this a day/off on protocol. Or is this a waste of time, and is it better to stick to more standard dosing regimes??


Come on guys.


I woudlnt mess with tren like that.

If you get tren side effects then run it at a higher does than the test.

Running an oral on workout days is OK I guess. What side effects are you looking to avoid?


This equates to an additional 1200mg per week of gear on top of your 'base' cycle of plain test or deca, I wouldn't use 'plain deca' as a base cycle myself. Theres no way I'd take those compounds in those doses pre workout, but thats just me,

I believe Stable blood levels are the key to minimal side effects, I've found this to be true as I tried it with tren ace and went from 50mg eod, to 25mg ed with back filled insulin needles and had noticeably less side effects (sweats, hair growth, 'anger') Using that amount of steroids with such short half lives 3-4 times per week will leave blood levels far from stable.

I won't comment on test susp as I've never used it, but personally I'd turn that 400mg per week tren from 100mg pre each 4 workouts into 50mg per day, ed, with a 250mg test cyp base and no deca, forget the suspension.

I have used 50mg drol pre workout and yes you get a very noticeable boost when training, that pisses on 20mg dbol pre workout, there's no comparison there, but I doubt it would be necessary on top of the tren and would push the blood pressure right up, albeit temporarily.

So to summarize (sorry I'm quite tired) forget the suspension, 250mg test per week, 50mg tren ed, with 100mg on training days if you have to, which would jack you up enough to probably not want to take the drol, but if you did I'd leave the tren at 50mg and do 50mg drol.

Hope that makes sense.


From what I understand, tren is pretty harsh gear, as is androl.

The reasoning for running them pre-workout would be to allow me to take them on top of my current stack and not suffer too much from the extra quantity of gear. I should have clarified my base cycle better. I'm currently running on 500/600 test/deca per week. This would be on top of that.

I figured that if I added in tren on top, or anadrol, I would likely get some harsh sides due to the amount of gear. Either gyno, sweating and insomnia or something else. I have also been running dbol, but stopped it last week, so I'm not keen on stressing the liver out with daily oral use. I'm due for some bloodwork soon so i'll find out how the liver is.

The other reason for doing it like this would be the pre/post workout anabolism induced from training, along the principles of the Ananconda protocol, but with gear.

Its interesting that you mention that anadrol is much better pre-workout than dbol. I'll definately look into it, although if it raises blood pressure enough it might not be wise with all that deca, the dbol was hard enough bp wise.


So your already on 1100mg per week of gear, your concerned about side effects but are considering adding 1200mg additional gear, 2 of the compounds are Tren and drol and your hoping by splitting 7 doses into 4 will mitigate side effects?. That equates to 2300mg per week gear, I think that amount of anything is at least asking for elevated blood pressure, and will leave a medley of steroids flowing in and out of your system. I'm no expert but I think this is slightly excessive and asking for trouble.

800mg drol split into 4 weekly doses will do more to your blood pressure and liver than daily dbol of a sensible amount- say 30mg per day or whatever you were taking. There's people on here who can enlighten you further than myself, but the logic of using a large amount of something and splitting it into 4 doses instead of 7 I'm pretty sure is just giving with one hand and taking with the other.

If I were you I would stick more more straightforward cycles experimenting with slightly larger doses adding one compound at a time whilst monitoring blood pressure and other side effects. E.G add another 400mg per week test to your current cycle then try adding 30mg dbol pre workout and start the anaconda protocol.

Then next cycle try low test and high tren seeing what doses you tolerate titrating as necessary, making sure you use tren ace not enan, I doubt you'd notice dbol pre workout on that but perhaps adding masteron daily in small amounts may be a good addition, I have not done this but have heard good reports from a couple of people who have.

One guy here westclock I think mentioned he can tolerate high test and high tren with no adverse side effects like high BP,many including myself cannot, just start slowly working your way up and see what the side effects are like vs results and make a sensible decision. I PERSONALLY think that 1200mg of pre workout gear you proposed is asking for acne and high BP at least, though i'm quite sensitive to skin irritation so I only speak for myself there.

Are you planning on competing or something? as I said thats quite a hefty bump from 1100mg PW to 2300mg, thats over double your current cycle , but with 2 of the strongest steroids- tren and drol. When I added 50mg drol pre workout that was only on top of 750mg PW test, and that was only pre deadlift or squat workouts , not every workout, but yes results were immediately noticeable and IMO not even comparable to pre work out dbol.

I think with some patient experimentation you will be able to titrate the doses and combine compounds that will compliment each without risking your health, I know people have used blood pressure medication to control BP on cycle but thats something I can't comment on as its not a road I need or intend to go down as my training goals don't call for it.

Good luck...


You could try adding 5iu of insulin to that stack.


Thanks for the input, its appreciated. Most of the people I know personally who lift are powerlifters, and they take a lot of gear. Please bear in mind I was also thinking out loud with this. I guess in terms of side effects, you may be right that not splitting the dose out may cause more sides.

Perhaps reducing the doses might make it more tolerable. From a muscle building perspective, you would expect higher peak levels to definately push the strength up, and as a result, increase the muscle gained as well.

I'm definately going to take some of your advice, Ill definately hold back on the tren, and maybe 50mg anadrol and 50mg suspension instead. Who knows though, I might try it out for one day lol.


Massiveguns- there's no way I was disputing the fact that your proposed cycle would jack you the fuck up!

Out of idle curiosity, have you tried high tren low test and high test low tren, high test high tren etc?

From my experience when you do take something pre workout that allows a ton of extra work- like your proposed cycle would- then all that extra work calls for additional recovery, so you'll need more gear or more time to recover, which is why I would split the extra amount into more like 7 doses than 4, saving maybe just the drol for pre workout. Like I said I've not used susp so I can't comment.

Also bare in mind that the extra strength is going to put more strain on the joints, tendons ligaments and obviously muscles- suddenly, when what they need is time to adjust gradually, which is why I suggested adding the compounds gradually over a couple of cycles.

I'm not an expert on steroids but I've got plenty of experience with injuries, particularly lower back so I know my body quite well now and my highest priority is my health, avoiding injury and illness.

Do you cycle on and off or do you blast and cruise?

I don't want to sound like a killjoy and I'm not trying to patronize you but once you start using all that gear you really (to quote Dave Tate) have no aces left to pull out of your sleeve. I would experiment with everything else you can like increased food intake (protein and healthy fats) and different types of training before you resort to heavier doses of steroids to break through plateau's.

I believe the key for you here is to experiment with what works for you, and what you can tolerate whilst remaining healthy.


I would really focus on what massiveguns has to say on here.

At the end of the day, especially with powerful drugs like tren and anadrol; we want stability (blood serum levels)

I could understand 'intermittent' usage of dianabol pre-workout; but throwing in additional doses of test susp pre workout; not to mention anadrol and tren your bringing your kettle to boiling. I mean, go ahead and do it, but it sounds like a real fucking roller coaster. What about dropping your deca dose; and adding in an additional 50mgs of tren and 50mgs of anadrol per day to your cycle?

I mean, me personally, I would not combine deca and tren in the same cycle; let alone those two and anadrol; but perhaps you are the type of beast who will just get bigger, stronger and puffier on the shit... :wink:


I'm already slightly puffier from the higher deca dose:) But I could give a shit, I don't care how bloated I get as long as I maximise what I get out of the gear. The only side effect I don't want is gyno but I have ancillaries for that, everything else I can handle. Obviously I don't want to actively bring on acne or hairloss, but they won't bother me if they happen.

I am almost ashamed to say that this is my first cycle, albeit a long one. I have yet to try tren on its own or in combo with test, but I will definately on my next cycle. I just wasn't keen on throwing it in daily on top of my current stack, hence the pre workout idea.

I know what you mean about injuries, I have had my fair share and I structure my training to avoid them/deal with them, but I have to say that deca is some miracle drug as far as joints and soft tissue injuries, I've hardly felt any whilst on, anything that does bother me is healed in a day. I can definately feel the strain on my ligaments though. I also take 5-10 grams of chondroitin per day which works amazingly without gear for preventing injuries.

With regard to food intake and training, I've got those covered pretty well. I don't know if its because its my first cycle but my body has responded extremely well to gear. Maybe I'm being too eager, but the jack is out of the box now if you know what I mean.


I would definitely would not recommend tren and drol for most users.

Ive run high tren and high test at the same time along side dbol preworkout, and while blood pressure increases are noticeable from say off cycle, they are manageable and for me at least, according to my home test band machine, are within relatively safe levels.

Then again I seem to tolerate test very well on average. Part of this may stem from the fact that I have always ran cycles with my estrogen limited by an AI to nearly "borderline" low. Which definitely seems to help with Blood Pressure in my experience.

Throwing in an oral like drol could easily swing that away from favorable areas.

Dbol is a better choice for many, although the blood pressure increases are also, often significant, In my experience and with anecdotal evidence from many users...the increases are less so than drol.All and all, it is an interesting idea....but I would much rather simply drop the deca or atleast decrease the dose and add tren in to the normal cycle.

A little deca goes a long way for joints and anabolism, and you simply cant beat tren for strength.

I would opt to lower the deca then add the tren ace as a daily injected drug.

High test, High tren, throw in a little deca and use 40-50mg of dbol preworkout seems like a reasonable enough cycle to me.

Ive run that exact cycle with little issues, minus the deca.

For pure growth tren seems to be a stronger drug, not to mention the nice fat burning properties it seems to exhibit even with bulking diets.

I wouldn't be too hasty to try something just because it seems new and inventive.

With the usage of tren ace in the normal cycle and dbol I see little need for suspension, its simply going to be "drowned out".

Your going to hit diminishing returns on strength pretty quickly with tren test and dbol, all of which are quite known for strength gains.

Id rather add GHRP-6 into the mix to "replace" deca for joints and injury repair, not to mention that with tren it would be very helpful appetite wise, along test and dbol you should be eating plenty.


Wstclock, out of idle curiosity, what seems to be the 'tipping point' (as in the maximum amount of gear) where blood pressure increases to an unacceptable point? Would you/ do you add blood pressure medication or keep the doses low enough to not make it necessary?


Ive run up to 2 grams of test with 50mg dbol just out of curiosity and never had too many issues.

Tren seems to be a real culprit as does drol, Ive run 1500mg of test and 800mg of tren and still been ok, but I dropped the dbol to 30mg preworkout.

Id say anything much over 2 grams if its not just test is going to be problematic for most users.

Depends on the drug really and how the user tolerates androgens.

Hawthorne berry and other oral herbal stuff can be helpful to throw on top, it is cheap after all.