T Nation

Pre-Workout before a Meet


#1

A friend of mine is entered in the 100% RAW AMERICAN CHALLENGE MARYLAND this Saturday (I tried to post a link but I can't seem to do it), and we're both wondering if there would be any issues with the pee testing if he took some pre-workout before his first lift and a bit more during the event.

Does anyone know for sure?

The concern is that some of the rules are not clearly written, like things like caffeine is listed as "monitored" but I can't seem to figure out what that means.


#2

Ask the promoter. He’ll know for sure.


#3

Pre-workouts are a waste of $. Get yourself a couple Monster Java’s and eat food all day long. It will work much better than ANY pre-workout and you won’t have to worry about being disqualified.

I’ve competed in 100% RAW several times. They won’t mess w/ you unless you’re breaking world records or you have ‘the look’. Trust me, you’ll be safe unless you’re taking AAS or other PED’s and have “the look” and breaking world records.


#4

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Ask the promoter. He’ll know for sure.[/quote]

You know, he’s been talking about “what should I do” and similar stuff for weeks now, the documentation that he’s shown me has been sketchy… I’m not sure why he didn’t ask him after looking up the event’s page.

I found the event promotor’s address and emailed him about 10 minutes after you posted that and got a response a little after 10pm:
“Should be no problem at all for him. It has to be a huge dose close to the testing to have an issue. We are doing a steroid panel on the drug test he should have no issues.”

Thanks T3hPwnisher


#5

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Pre-workouts are a waste of $. Get yourself a couple Monster Java’s and eat food all day long. It will work much better than ANY pre-workout and you won’t have to worry about being disqualified.[/quote]

With most commercial ones I would agree. Too little of what you really need, too much of stuff that will long term hurt you (typically burn out your adrenals, raise your BP…). The reason that I’m asking is that after trying a few of them I started doing some research and mixing my own, which the guy who is competing has been using. My conditions on the stuff:

  • natural, I’ve removed almost all the artificial sweeteners, have figured out how to get rid of the rest (roughly about 7% of what you’d have in most commercial products), but the people that have tried it have been thrilled with the results so I’m tempted not to mess with it

  • nowhere near the caffeine and other stimulants of commercial ones (I wasn’t thrilled with that when I tried them, and found that a good fraction of the people I’ve been working out with actually have high blood pressure and similar side effects), a serving of my stuff is around 60-80mg of caffeine.

  • gets you the right amounts and combination of vasodiolators

  • the right and sufficient amounts of recovery and energy transport agents

(what blew my mind was that there is no way that you could get the last 2 from any of the commercial products, they just don’t have the volume in a serving, my serving ends up being 3+ scoops of a typical pre-workout scoop)

For a competition type setting I honestly don’t know, the problem is that it’s a few single lifts over a 5 hour span. Less volume over a longer period than what you would typically take a Pre for. Thinking it out my conclusion was that:

  • He’s used to lifting on it, he gets more consistent performance with it, so I don’t think he should change what he’s doing at a meet.

  • Since most of what I put in it is to get you going and to have better muscle recovery and store more usable energy in the muscle that could be useful in his lifts later in the meet. It’s funny because he stopped using it for a while and came back to me that it took a few workouts till he noticed it out of his system, and at that point it didn’t hurt his max lift, but he needed a lot more warming up to get there and he had a lot less left in him for accessory motions after that lift (both significant, and both more pronounced than expected for a 20y/o)

  • we plan on jacking the caffeine a little just for the event. It is one of the simplest, most effective and cheapest performance enhancing substances out there, and a one time use isn’t going to hurt him. I plan on keeping the caffeine separate so he can take it depending on how he feels, 4 x 50mg servings so he can’t just decide “I’m going to take it all” and end up jittery and mess up his timing

  • the plan is also to take a full serving 30-60min before his squat attempts, and then half servings trying to get similar timing before the deadlift and bench press

That pretty much sounds like response I got from the director/promotor


#6

As far as stimulants go, I would probably do pretty much what you’ve indicated, mimicking training conditions as closely as possible. If he’s used to using them, he should use them for the meet.

I couldn’t disagree with OSU’s comment that pre-workouts are a waste of money. I don’t know why anyone would say this. Stimulants are one of the most scientifically researched/proven performance enhancers available, specifically caffeine. I still use DMAA as well.

I’m doing a meet in a week, and plan to use 1 scoop of my pre-workout in the morning before squats, and another shortly before deadlifts. This is an untested meet, so I’m not concerned with the DMAA being banned or whatever.


#7

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
As far as stimulants go, I would probably do pretty much what you’ve indicated, mimicking training conditions as closely as possible. If he’s used to using them, he should use them for the meet.

I couldn’t disagree with OSU’s comment that pre-workouts are a waste of money. I don’t know why anyone would say this. Stimulants are one of the most scientifically researched/proven performance enhancers available, specifically caffeine. I still use DMAA as well.

I’m doing a meet in a week, and plan to use 1 scoop of my pre-workout in the morning before squats, and another shortly before deadlifts. This is an untested meet, so I’m not concerned with the DMAA being banned or whatever.[/quote]

Pre-packaged pre-workouts are a waste of money for me. I’ve used them and as I said above, coffee(Monster Java’s) and eating all day long the day of the meet is the best energy and strength you can give yourself. It’s more beneficial in the long run as well. I’m not saying stimulants are not helpful(like coffee), but guys spend a LOT of money on pre-workout powders for a less effect than what I’m advocating.


#8

[quote]Grizzly_Mark wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Pre-workouts are a waste of $. Get yourself a couple Monster Java’s and eat food all day long. It will work much better than ANY pre-workout and you won’t have to worry about being disqualified.[/quote]

With most commercial ones I would agree. Too little of what you really need, too much of stuff that will long term hurt you (typically burn out your adrenals, raise your BP…). The reason that I’m asking is that after trying a few of them I started doing some research and mixing my own, which the guy who is competing has been using. My conditions on the stuff:

  • natural, I’ve removed almost all the artificial sweeteners, have figured out how to get rid of the rest (roughly about 7% of what you’d have in most commercial products), but the people that have tried it have been thrilled with the results so I’m tempted not to mess with it

  • nowhere near the caffeine and other stimulants of commercial ones (I wasn’t thrilled with that when I tried them, and found that a good fraction of the people I’ve been working out with actually have high blood pressure and similar side effects), a serving of my stuff is around 60-80mg of caffeine.

  • gets you the right amounts and combination of vasodiolators

  • the right and sufficient amounts of recovery and energy transport agents

(what blew my mind was that there is no way that you could get the last 2 from any of the commercial products, they just don’t have the volume in a serving, my serving ends up being 3+ scoops of a typical pre-workout scoop)

For a competition type setting I honestly don’t know, the problem is that it’s a few single lifts over a 5 hour span. Less volume over a longer period than what you would typically take a Pre for. Thinking it out my conclusion was that:

  • He’s used to lifting on it, he gets more consistent performance with it, so I don’t think he should change what he’s doing at a meet.

  • Since most of what I put in it is to get you going and to have better muscle recovery and store more usable energy in the muscle that could be useful in his lifts later in the meet. It’s funny because he stopped using it for a while and came back to me that it took a few workouts till he noticed it out of his system, and at that point it didn’t hurt his max lift, but he needed a lot more warming up to get there and he had a lot less left in him for accessory motions after that lift (both significant, and both more pronounced than expected for a 20y/o)

  • we plan on jacking the caffeine a little just for the event. It is one of the simplest, most effective and cheapest performance enhancing substances out there, and a one time use isn’t going to hurt him. I plan on keeping the caffeine separate so he can take it depending on how he feels, 4 x 50mg servings so he can’t just decide “I’m going to take it all” and end up jittery and mess up his timing

  • the plan is also to take a full serving 30-60min before his squat attempts, and then half servings trying to get similar timing before the deadlift and bench press

That pretty much sounds like response I got from the director/promotor[/quote]

You never know when you will be up at the meet. Trying to time when you’re gonna take the stuff is difficult. That’s why I advocate just getting in your Monster Java’s or some other caffeine and eating all day long. You’ll always be ready. I used to make protein shakes w/ coffee, ice and creamer before lifting. People will say you don’t need protein before lifting, but the process of rebuilding muscle is on going - it’s not just after a workout.

My favorite food at a meet is a bucket of fried chicken tenders and potato wedges along w/ some sort of Monster Java’s and water. Power baby!

No matter what, you’ll have to figure out what works for you.


#9

A full serving or Power Drive and 2 spike tabs.


#10

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
As far as stimulants go, I would probably do pretty much what you’ve indicated, mimicking training conditions as closely as possible. If he’s used to using them, he should use them for the meet.

I couldn’t disagree with OSU’s comment that pre-workouts are a waste of money. I don’t know why anyone would say this. Stimulants are one of the most scientifically researched/proven performance enhancers available, specifically caffeine. I still use DMAA as well.

I’m doing a meet in a week, and plan to use 1 scoop of my pre-workout in the morning before squats, and another shortly before deadlifts. This is an untested meet, so I’m not concerned with the DMAA being banned or whatever.[/quote]

Pre-packaged pre-workouts are a waste of money for me. I’ve used them and as I said above, coffee(Monster Java’s) and eating all day long the day of the meet is the best energy and strength you can give yourself. It’s more beneficial in the long run as well. I’m not saying stimulants are not helpful(like coffee), but guys spend a LOT of money on pre-workout powders for a less effect than what I’m advocating.
[/quote]

While I don’t disagree with the premise that you can effectively and cheaply replace preworkout powders, buying monster javas would work out to be a lot more expensive than just about any preworkout.

Personally I would be taking in a lot more caffeine than training. Chad Wesley smith did a great writeup on this.


#11

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

While I don’t disagree with the premise that you can effectively and cheaply replace preworkout powders, buying monster javas would work out to be a lot more expensive than just about any preworkout.

Personally I would be taking in a lot more caffeine than training. Chad Wesley smith did a great writeup on this.[/quote]

I agree if a person was drinking Monsters every training session, but just for one meet I think it’d be ok financially.

As for regular training, I just eat a good meal.


#12

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
While I don’t disagree with the premise that you can effectively and cheaply replace preworkout powders, buying monster javas would work out to be a lot more expensive than just about any preworkout.

Personally I would be taking in a lot more caffeine than training. Chad Wesley smith did a great writeup on this.[/quote]

I just found Chad Smith’s “Complete Guide to Putting PRs on the Platform” and a quick search showed him taking 1g+ of caffeine. You definitely took that to heart with the deadlift session you just had, lol. I would likely get a headache taking that much. Thanks for the article reference though.


#13

I agree that pre-workouts are a waste of money, but not because they don’t work or whatever. In reality, there are much cheaper options that work just as well. These days I take a 200mg caffeine pill and 5g creatine before training, nothing else ever seemed to make a difference. 100 caffeine pills is about $5 (where I live), how many servings of a pre-workout can you get for the same price? You can buy almost anything else of its own, so why not just mix up your own stuff instead? Save money and get the right dosage instead. Of course, if you’re not concerned about money and you just need some stimulants to get you going, then who cares, buy it.

About 100% raw, from what I hear they follow WADA regulations. You will have to look this up yourself for the precise details, but there is a maximum in-competition caffeine level allowed. Unless you are taking some massive doses it shouldn’t be a problem. Also, unless you are in the world championships they probably won’t be testing for every single banned substance. It costs a lot of money and steroids are the main issue.