Let’s say you wanna do step-ups, the right way (using your glutes and hams, not your quads). This is actually surprisingly difficult for many newbs to do. But, if you prefatigue your glutes you’ll be surprised at how much easier it is to “find” your glutes and use them for the step-ups instead of your quads.
[quote]HotCarl28 wrote:
i understand what rob and u are saying but i feel like ur proposing a different scenario… i am referring to if ur shoulders and triceps are overpowering ur pecs… u have both described a situation in which the pecs are stronger than the shoulders and triceps
[/quote]
I’m not sure how possible it is for the triceps and deltoids to overpower the pects during a flat press. The pectorals adduct the upper arm; the triceps extend the forearm; and the anterior deltoids abduct the shoulder. The anterior delts are used quite a bit in a flat press, but they are much smaller and much less effective at moving the arm in a press because the pectorals have better leverage to move the arm in that position.
Looking at the drawing above, doesn’t it seem evident that the pectoral muscle (blue) is the best situated to move the bar up? It has better leverage to move the arms in the direction of the press than the deltoids (purple). As for the triceps, rather than actively assisting in moving the bar up, they come into play extending the arms under the load, which is just what has to happen to effectively complete the movement.
Anyway, that’s how it seems to me. I suppose it is possible for someone to have such huge anterior delts that they are more effective at a flat press than the pects… But unless someone did years of shoulder work while ignoring their chest, it seems unlikely to happen.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
… you could do a “normal” set of bench press, or even a few sets, and really pay attention to what forces you to end your set. i would bet that it would be your triceps, and not your chest … for me, its definitely the triceps that end the set before my chest does.[/quote]
At the very top of the press, you are not so much moving your upper arm with your chest anymore, but straightening out your arms with your triceps to lock out your elbows. Because your chest is so much bigger and stronger than your triceps, you can bench quite a bit, and this load is usually a lot for the triceps during the lock out phase of a flat press.
But the triceps are stressed for much less of the movement (maybe the top quarter of the full press), while the chest is used for almost the entire movement. When I do full presses, I feel it mostly in my chest and also quite a bit in my triceps. When I so partial presses (only going up 1/2 or 3/4 of the full movement), my chest gets fatigued faster (because it is under tension longer and gets no relief from the triceps at the top), and my triceps are barely touched.
The next time you feel yourself failing at the top part of a bench, instead of racking the weight, try belting out a few partials just using your chest. I think you will find your chest is more tired than you thought and you won’t be able to get the bar much above your chest. That is my experience anyway.
[quote]MarcusPhaeton wrote:
R_Rob wrote:
…by doing a set of flys or pec dec to failure before doing benchpress or incline bench press, you have “pre-exhausted” the pecs, meaning that the shoulders and tris are “assisting” the chest to further exhaustion, rather than baring the brunt of the weight and the chest not quite getting there…
Rob
Rob’s got it absolutely right. The point is to use an isolation exercise to pre-fatigue the target muscle of a compound movement. If you do it right, when you fail in the compound movement, you can be sure that the failure is caused by the target muscle getting fatigued before any of the supporting muscles. Pre-fatiguing supporting muscles makes no sense because you will make the compound movement even less stressful on the target muscle, as you will fail even earlier than you would normally.[/quote]
Just wanted to again say that this is the correct usage of pre exhausting. I try to explain it to people as sort of like the triceps and delts are piggy backing the chest and forcing them further towards failure than they would be able to go by themselves.
Whether or not this is the best way to activate the chest is arguable(I don’t think it is) but that is how pre exhaust has been done as popularized by Arthur Jones.
[quote]MarcusPhaeton wrote:
dez6485 wrote:
… you could do a “normal” set of bench press, or even a few sets, and really pay attention to what forces you to end your set. i would bet that it would be your triceps, and not your chest … for me, its definitely the triceps that end the set before my chest does.
At the very top of the press, you are not so much moving your upper arm with your chest anymore, but straightening out your arms with your triceps to lock out your elbows. Because your chest is so much bigger and stronger than your triceps, you can bench quite a bit, and this load is usually a lot for the triceps during the lock out phase of a flat press.
But the triceps are stressed for much less of the movement (maybe the top quarter of the full press), while the chest is used for almost the entire movement. When I do full presses, I feel it mostly in my chest and also quite a bit in my triceps. When I so partial presses (only going up 1/2 or 3/4 of the full movement), my chest gets fatigued faster (because it is under tension longer and gets no relief from the triceps at the top), and my triceps are barely touched.
The next time you feel yourself failing at the top part of a bench, instead of racking the weight, try belting out a few partials just using your chest. I think you will find your chest is more tired than you thought and you won’t be able to get the bar much above your chest. That is my experience anyway. [/quote]
i didnt say that i failed at the top of the press. if i fail a press, its usually about 6-8in off my chest, where my tris probably start to take over. but this isnt my thread anyway…