T Nation

Pre-Existing Gyno and Adex Dosage


#1

I apologize if this has been answered but the recommended dosage of adex seems to be .25mg/day, I am about to start a new cycle in a week or two and already have some gyno and seem to be sensitive to estrogen levels. My question is how much is too much? Should I start at .5mg/day and keep nolva on hand or just start off at 1mg? I really don't want to make this matter any worse, thanks for the help.


#2

How about telling us what you are going to be using. Telling us what you used that caused gyno in the past would be helpful also.


#3

Not actually sure what caused the gyno, I haven’t used in about 9 months and the gyno seemed to get worse while I was off. I had been using deca and test, around test-e 500mg and deca at 400mg, I noticed to get sensitive nipples while on it so I started nolva daily and it seemed to help.

I haven’t been on cycle since that and the gyno seemed to get worse. I did a normal nolva pct 40/40/20/20/20…after pct I had some bloodwork done because I still wasn’t feeling great. At that time my estradiol was 19 (doesn’t give reference range just says <or=29) my total test was 378 with reference range of 90-890 and my free test was 117, ref 30 - 135

I had bloodwork done about 3 months after this and both my total test and free test increased, i believe my total test was up to about 500 or 600.

I am most likely going to run test-p and mast, just waiting to see what my friend has available.


#4

no thoughts?


#5

It seems like the test, deca cycle caused the gyno. Did you use an AI like Adex on that test, deca cycle?

Deca can cause prolactin induced gyno which is impervious to an AI. This type of gyno requires a prolactin antagonist like cabergoline or bromocriptine to rein in prolactin levels and prevent/alleviate prolactin induced gyno.

I think starting your next cycle using Adex at 0.25mg/d should protect you against worsening your existing gyno and any elevated estrogen sides. You can adjust up or down as required. If using prolactin increasing compounds in the future, always use caber or bromo.


#6

I didn’t use an AI because i was rather ignorant and figured my doses weren’t large enough to make it a necessity, I actually tried bromo as well, if i remember correctly it was quite expensive, For some reason I feel as though it has gotten worse the past 2-3 months (last time I was on a cycle was last june) This already bothers me enough, would .5mg/day be too much?


#7

You could start at 0.5mg/d and if that dose causes achy joints and diminished libido, reduce the dose to 0.25/d. You can always adjust until you find your sweet spot when libido is good and water is controlled, yet you are not too dry.

What gear will you be using?


#8

Should hear back from my guy tomorrow or wednesday, hoping to run test prop and mast, if he has them available, but yeah I think I will start with 0.5mg/day and see how it feels, I have never used adex before so it will be interesting to see how I react to it


#9

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
It seems like the test, deca cycle caused the gyno. Did you use an AI like Adex on that test, deca cycle?

Deca can cause prolactin induced gyno which is impervious to an AI. This type of gyno requires a prolactin antagonist like cabergoline or bromocriptine to rein in prolactin levels and prevent/alleviate prolactin induced gyno.

I think starting your next cycle using Adex at 0.25mg/d should protect you against worsening your existing gyno and any elevated estrogen sides. You can adjust up or down as required. If using prolactin increasing compounds in the future, always use caber or bromo.[/quote]

Wrong mate.

If an AI is used themn any progsterone, prolactin or any other hormone that needs estrogen to cause bitch tits will not be able to do its dirty deed (Cause or exacerbate gynocomastia).

This has been discussed to death by now surely, not saying you shouldnt have answered the guy but saying you are a bright lad, YOU should have known that.

brook


#10

I personally would start with 0.25mg ED and go from there… but thats personal preference…

Brook


#11

[quote] Brook wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
It seems like the test, deca cycle caused the gyno. Did you use an AI like Adex on that test, deca cycle?

Deca can cause prolactin induced gyno which is impervious to an AI. This type of gyno requires a prolactin antagonist like cabergoline or bromocriptine to rein in prolactin levels and prevent/alleviate prolactin induced gyno.

I think starting your next cycle using Adex at 0.25mg/d should protect you against worsening your existing gyno and any elevated estrogen sides. You can adjust up or down as required. If using prolactin increasing compounds in the future, always use caber or bromo.

Wrong mate.

If an AI is used themn any progsterone, prolactin or any other hormone that needs estrogen to cause bitch tits will not be able to do its dirty deed (Cause or exacerbate gynocomastia).

This has been discussed to death by now surely, not saying you shouldnt have answered the guy but saying you are a bright lad, YOU should have known that.

brook[/quote]

I answered this way because of the experiences of certain vets like Cortes who developed gyno even with the proper AI precautions. In Cortes’s case the compound in question was Tren, but Deca is known to have even stronger prolactin increasing effects.

I know an AI will generally protect against Cortes’ outcome - but not always. The OP seems to have the same proclivity to prolactin based gyno as Cortes so having caber on hand seems to be the prudent thing to do.

See Cortes’ thread: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/the_trenprogesteroneprolactin_thread

Quote from that thread:

"Alright. I have never had this explained to me, but I KNOW that I have experienced gyno as a direct result of either a too high dosage or a too long usage of tren. Massive amounts of letrozole did nothing but destroy my libido, while the gyno continued to progress pretty well unchecked.

To the degree that I now have more fatty tissue there than I had before, along with a hard, pea-sized lump that was never there to begin with."


#12

With test-prop and mast I shouldn’t have to worry about prolactin correct? so would having caber on hand still be necessary?


#13

[quote]johnmurray2 wrote:
With test-prop and mast I shouldn’t have to worry about prolactin correct? so would having caber on hand still be necessary? [/quote]

No, with test-prop and masteron you are in the clear for prolactin based gyno issues unless your gear in not legit and has deca or tren mixed in it.


#14

if you get gyno,can you fix it…?


#15

Fix it? Nip-tuck bro :wink:

But I do agree that if high prolactin/progesterone is the issue, an AI may not always help. Why? I don’t really know. But I can say that prior to doing any legitimate juice, I did Pheraplex, which began to give me gyno almost instantly. Nolva and 1mg/day of LETRO didn’t seem to even slow it down. I stopped after only 8 days. That gyno is still there… lots of mammary gland hypertrophy, more so than actual fat.