T Nation

Pre-cycle Lower BF Rationale

do you need to Clen-down your fat levels prior to start of cycle?

anyhow who conjured up the idea that you gotta be under a certain body fat level (say 12-15%) prior to kicking off a bulking cycle or any cycle for that matter?

any reasoning to it?

you’d want to eat voraciously like a caterpillar anyway once you start the cycle. rt? then why not think of the existing fat as calorie reserves frontloaded onto the cycle?

dont the nutrient partitioning effects of AAS apply to breaking down existing fat supplies?

great question. fat is just stored energy and nutrients. its just a matter of getting your body to use it. In my opinion the rationale for losing BF before a cycle would be to keep cardiac risks to a minimum. Given the fat stores and added water weight from a cycle it might lead to very high bp, choesterol imbalance and overall extra stress on the heart.

Although, as long as you use an AI to keep water down, i dont see a huge problem. Another possiblity is purely philosophical. It might be that they want you to get your routine and diet in check before starting a cycle. BF% may be a reflection of your dedication. lowering the fat just prepares you for a rigorous cycle.in turn, quality gains. Anyone more qualified wanna ring in on this issue??

[quote]maxamann wrote:
Although, as long as you use an AI to keep water down, i dont see a huge problem.[/quote]

What is AI exactly. I know what anti-estrogens are in general, but have never heard the acronym AI…Arimidex??

Thanks.

aromatase inhibitor - Arimidex, Aromasin, and Femara. From what i have read, they are suicide inhibitors of estrogen. Some can decrease amounts of estrogen in the body up to 98%. SERMs, or selective estrogen receptor modulator(nolvadex,clomid) they are antagonists of certain estrogen receptors in the body. This means that they fill the receptors so that REAL estrogen cannot bind and create a cascade. Please note that i am not qualified in chemistry! Please research most of this stuff on the net. some good sites http://www.mesomorphosis.com/
www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catsteroids.htm
www.steroidology.com

Aromatase Inhibitor.

Forgot to define aromatase, some steroids such as testosterone have a high rate of aromatization. Meaning that the testosterone is converted into precursors such as DHT and estrogen in the body. Another note about SERMS, they are selective to certian tissues in the body, like breasts–keeping gyno down.

Aromatase Inhibitors

The Vets wud want you to hit the books…

tell me when you find a tome that in no way contradicts the rest of the material out there on any given topic…

no sarcasm intended

Keeping on track, Anyone more qualified wanna ring in on this issue about body fat and starting a cycle?

Got it thanks. Didn’t mean to side-track the thread.

Because a lot of steroids are anabolic to not only muscle tissue but fat cells as well. The lower your BF the less change of adipose anabolism. Testosterone is a main culprit of this which is why many guys only use heavy doses on bulk cycles.

[quote]E-man wrote:
Because a lot of steroids are anabolic to not only muscle tissue but fat cells as well. The lower your BF the less change of adipose anabolism. Testosterone is a main culprit of this which is why many guys only use heavy doses on bulk cycles.[/quote]

…does adipose tissue have the necessary receptors to facilitate ‘adipose anabolism’? Just asking 'coz i’ve never heard that before…

Aromatase lives in bodyfat. Less body fat, less estrogen sides.

only respectable piece of lit found with keywords “adipose anabolism” or “fat tissue anabolism” says ‘eat fatty fish’

Yet no hint on upregulation of fat levels by AAS (Insulin a BIG YES…but AAS nothing conclusive).

i already eat very leanly. old fashioned oats, lots of egg whites, lots of water (actually lemonade minus sugar), fruits, dark greens, fresh water fish, rice bran oil (for its Oryzanol-supposed to be better than grape seed and olive)…

the point is MY FAT LEVELS are LESS THAN IDEAL (easily 20%+) although I AM and WILL BE ON A STELLARLY AWESOME DIET GOING INTO THE CYCLE.

Question is should this HURT/DAMPEN my cycle?

“Prostacyclin produced from ARA is another strong mediator of fat tissue anabolism (5). A regular intake of fatty fish containing EPA would reduce the negative impact of LA and ARA on fat tissue.”

http://www.teknoscienze.com/images/documenti/supplements/morten%20OBESITY.pdf#search="adipose%20tissue%20anabolism%20"

[quote]keaster wrote:
Aromatase lives in bodyfat. Less body fat, less estrogen sides.[/quote]

…isn’t aromatase a process, instead of a ‘thing’?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Does it still hold true? the more fat you have the more likely you will have higher estrogen levels/sides?

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
ephrem wrote:
keaster wrote:
Aromatase lives in bodyfat. Less body fat, less estrogen sides.

…isn’t aromatase a process, instead of a ‘thing’?

Aromatisation is a process, that of the conversion of test. into est., caused by the aromatase enzyme…

bushy[/quote]

…okay, so the enzyme is [can be] stored in adipose tissue? I was under the impression that enzymes, as they play their part in various processes in the body, are ‘used-up’ or re-absorbed. That’s not true?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
keaster wrote:
Aromatase lives in bodyfat. Less body fat, less estrogen sides.

…isn’t aromatase a process, instead of a ‘thing’?
[/quote]

Sorry I should have said the Aromatase enzyme.

For the OP question, Testosterone also produces fat loss by binding to the AR on fat cells.

Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.

It aslo increases nutrient partioning, thisbasically means more food goes to building muscle.

[quote]maxamann wrote:
It might be that they want you to get your routine and diet in check before starting a cycle. BF% may be a reflection of your dedication.[/quote]

This should be expanded upon:

Getting BF down to relatively lean levels (10-12%) requires a base of LBM and a basic understanding of nutrition and training. Along the way, you discover what works for your particular body.

This base of muscle and applied knowledge is mandatory for an optimal first cycle.

chillain–well put!