T Nation

Pre Cycle Gyno


#1

i am about to start a deca/test cycle. if i already had gyno as a teen. am i more prone to getting it while on the cycle? what are the precautions i should take?


#2

You're probably at a slightly higher risk for sides.

It sounds like this is your first cycle. If so, why run two compounds? Easier to know your enemy, so to speak, and just run test along with a well-dosed AI. Deca is a pretty easy compound for the most part, but it is a 19-nor and does add potential complications.


#3

any more advice


#4

Yes:

1) Read the stickies.
2) Avoid steroids that increase prolactin as that is an additional pathway to gyno in addition to the normal aromatization which is fairly easily handled through proper AI dosing. In other words if you are prone to gyno, don't increase the odds of a flareup. Prolactin based gyno is a more complicated beast to slay and deca has a long half life so there will be no tuning back if trouble arises.


#5

Prolactin based gyno is not a relevant term. Estrogen is needed to get gyno, and without estrogen - it aint coming.
Also suggesting that 'Prolactin based gyno is a more complicated beast to slay' is incorrect too - with AI's being perfectly adequate, and as i mentioned estrogen is needed to get gyno.

Estrogen increases prolactin too.. increases in estrogen increase secretion of prolactin from the pituitary.

Deca does increase prolactin from everything i can tell - and IMO is the reason for 1) The immediate and complete suppression of the HPTA along with the Estrogen and Androgenic components of the drug, and 2) the reason that libido is really affected by deca even when accompanying test levels are more than sufficient.

The second point is actually the most misunderstood IME, and is often confused with full suppression post cycle. Many find gains and strength still able to climb post PCT of a deca cycle - this wouldn't be the case if still inhibited.

This is a problem, best solved by a dopamine agonist - which is a direct antagonist to prolactin.
The problem is not increased chance of gyno - although this would be an issue if no AI was used - it would also be an issue if there was no Nandrolone and no AI was used, meaning that the warning of prolactin mediated gyno a little inappropriate for lack of a better word.
This isnt to say that prolactin doesnt stimulate further increases in breast tissue, but it does with estrogen.. and with low levels of progesterone (and high levels of estrogen and prolactin - as in post-natal women) it can lead to lactation - but with higher levels of progesterone lactation is impossible.
However, with dilligent use of an AI (as would/should be used with all aromatising AAS anyway) this is a non-issue.

The problem still remains of the prolactin reducing libido - independantly of inhibition IMO.
The inhibition is no problem while on cycle, as a DHT source such as test/mast or proviron is used to keep mood and libido high - often among other reasons.
Plus while the decanoate ester has a long half life, it is still not too bad to recover from post cycle.. BUT often with raised prolactin levels (even with estrogen under control) the libido will still be very low - making many believe that they are still suppressed when they may not be, with bloods being the inevitable outcome for the best hormonal picture.

In summary, ND is not going to give any gyno issues with Test if an AI is used anyway, as it would be.
ND will suppress you harder/faster - but in the end, suppression is inevitable anyway with any decent cycle.
It can reduce libido - and does in most, and IME this can last long after the cycle, but is due to prolactin not suppression. If cabergoline is used with nandrolone preparations, this wont be a problem however, and the caber will also assist in the recovery of the HPTA - as the prolactin wont be able to inhibit the HPTA further.

Brook


#6

OP,

There you have it from the horse's mouth so to speak (Brook being predisposed to gyno, very experienced with deca and quite a student of AAS).

Brook,

Thanks for the clarification.


#7

thank you very much!