Pre-Bed Meal Question! Cut Cycle

I’m 210 with 20-22% bodyfat, and I want to drop to 10% or lower, this is my first cut cyle. I’ve been searching the threads for pre-sleep meal suggestions, but I can’t seem to find any for someone in a cut cycle.

Could somebody please tell me for my bodyweight what and how much I should eat before sleeping and how long before sleeping while in a cut cycle?

[quote]danian1 wrote:
I’m 210 with 20-22% bodyfat, and I want to drop to 10% or lower, this is my first cut cyle. I’ve been searching the threads for pre-sleep meal suggestions, but I can’t seem to find any for someone in a cut cycle.

Could somebody please tell me for my bodyweight what and how much I should eat before sleeping and how long before sleeping while in a cut cycle?[/quote]

If trying to lose fat and retain muscle I will suggest having your last protein shake or whole feel meal no later then 6:00 p.m. and your pre sleep anti-catabolic regimen should be BCAA’s capsules and Flameout. This has worked for me.

D

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
danian1 wrote:
I’m 210 with 20-22% bodyfat, and I want to drop to 10% or lower, this is my first cut cyle. I’ve been searching the threads for pre-sleep meal suggestions, but I can’t seem to find any for someone in a cut cycle.

Could somebody please tell me for my bodyweight what and how much I should eat before sleeping and how long before sleeping while in a cut cycle?

If trying to lose fat and retain muscle I will suggest having your last protein shake or whole feel meal no later then 6:00 p.m. and your pre sleep anti-catabolic regimen should be BCAA’s capsules and Flameout. This has worked for me.

D[/quote]

This is interesting. Here is what I am wondering.

Two diets. Same amount of calories. Same macronutrient breakdown. Which will yield better results in terms of muscle gain/maintenance and fat loss : consuming your alloted food by 6:00 PM and having BCAAs before bed, or splitting up your calories so that you’re eating your last meal right before bedtime.

In the first scenario, your meals during the day will be more calorie dense. In the second scenario, you are splitting up your calories more equally, resulting in either longer duration between meals, or more frequent, smaller meals.

However, the calorie level is the same over a 24 hour period. What effects would going a longer period of time (say, 6:00PM to 6:00 AM) have on muscle maintenance/fat loss versus eating your last meal at, say, 9:00 PM and waking up by 6:00 AM.

Would the difference even be noticeable? Personally, I doubt it would be. I think the main difference would be the psychological effect of going longer without eating; if I ate at 6:00, while dieting, by 9:00 or 10:00 I’m going to desperately want to eat again. And if I don’t, I’m going to be more likely to wake up in the middle of the night and consume an entire jar of natural peanut butter…or at least half cough not that I’ve, uh, done this…cough

Thoughts, D?

The only thing I can counter with is I tried it and it worked for me. I was struggling to lose some fat and still downing my nightly anti muscle wasting protein shake. When I nixed the shake for BCAA’s and not eating past six I started dropping more fat. Again, like everything it may not work for all, but it’s worth giving it a shot if you are struggling with traditional methods.

D

I feel like it is always a better idea to front-load calories regardless of whether you are bulking or cutting.

That said, I do make a paste of about 1/3 - 1/4 cup strained yogurt, 1 tbsp peanut butter, 1/2 scoop Metabolic Drive, and a fiber supplement that I eat about 90 mins before sleep, and that has worked for me when cutting.

Notice that this is strained yogurt which has substantially fewer carbs than the yogurt you are probably used to.

I second the advice of BCAAs/Flameout immediately before bed.

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
The only thing I can counter with is I tried it and it worked for me. I was struggling to lose some fat and still downing my nightly anti muscle wasting protein shake. When I nixed the shake for BCAA’s and not eating past six I started dropping more fat. Again, like everything it may not work for all, but it’s worth giving it a shot if you are struggling with traditional methods.

D[/quote]

I think therein lies the crux of the issue; by replacing your shake with BCAAs/Flameout, you probably cut out somewhere between 200-400 calories from your caloric intake, which could have very well been just what you needed. The BCAA/Flameout combo is a good substitute, because most likely it will allow for that calorie reduction while at the same time preserving muscle mass.

I’m assuming you did not increase your calories during the day to make up for the nixed shake.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
The only thing I can counter with is I tried it and it worked for me. I was struggling to lose some fat and still downing my nightly anti muscle wasting protein shake. When I nixed the shake for BCAA’s and not eating past six I started dropping more fat. Again, like everything it may not work for all, but it’s worth giving it a shot if you are struggling with traditional methods.

D

I think therein lies the crux of the issue; by replacing your shake with BCAAs/Flameout, you probably cut out somewhere between 200-400 calories from your caloric intake, which could have very well been just what you needed. The BCAA/Flameout combo is a good substitute, because most likely it will allow for that calorie reduction while at the same time preserving muscle mass.

I’m assuming you did not increase your calories during the day to make up for the nixed shake.
[/quote]

Correct, and I should have clarified that is what pretty much what I meant reducing calories, but adding the BCAA’s and Flameout to ward off the catabolic effect. I feel better when my last meal is around that time as well even after, I guess I acclimated to it.

D

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
NewDamage wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
The only thing I can counter with is I tried it and it worked for me. I was struggling to lose some fat and still downing my nightly anti muscle wasting protein shake. When I nixed the shake for BCAA’s and not eating past six I started dropping more fat. Again, like everything it may not work for all, but it’s worth giving it a shot if you are struggling with traditional methods.

D

I think therein lies the crux of the issue; by replacing your shake with BCAAs/Flameout, you probably cut out somewhere between 200-400 calories from your caloric intake, which could have very well been just what you needed. The BCAA/Flameout combo is a good substitute, because most likely it will allow for that calorie reduction while at the same time preserving muscle mass.

I’m assuming you did not increase your calories during the day to make up for the nixed shake.

Correct, and I should have clarified that is what pretty much what I meant reducing calories, but adding the BCAA’s and Flameout to ward off the catabolic effect. I feel better when my last meal is around that time as well even after, I guess I acclimated to it.

D
[/quote]

Hate to jump in the middle of your debate here, but you guys are knoweledgable, maybe you can help…

I’m broke right now, and supps are so much more money over here, so…

What NATURAL foods would be the best choice for me to eat before bed?

How many grams of protein should I get, and how much fat based on my bw?

I’ve an idea: I don’t like cottage cheese, but wouldn’t the protein be the same in natural yogurt?

here’s the plan- (protein/carbs/fat)

4 natural yogurt (20/24/11) = 275 cal
2 eggs(1=61g)h-boiled(14/1/14) = 186 cal
2 tsp flaxseed oil (0/0/8) = 72 cal

(this is the only time i take flxsd oil, 8 grams enough?)

total - (34/25/33) CALORIES = 533
%cal - protein = 25.5%, carbs = 18.8%, fat = 55.7%

now that I’m looking at it like this, maybe it’s not so great, any suggestions to help me fine tune this? Please, no more supps, what’s the best natural food combos?

No, my apologies, I’ve been hijacking threads like a son-of-a-bitch. My fault.

I’d like to interject here and say that its not really based on your bodyweight, though that does factor in somewhat. What you need to do is have an idea of how many calories you’d like to take in per day, including the amount of fat, protein, and carbs you’d like to take in per day. Eat your meals during the day, allotting for a small meal within your guidelines before bed.
If you eat all your allotted calories for the day…well, I don’t think you’d really need to eat anything.

While cutting, I would personally allow for a 300-400 calorie meal consisting of protein and fat before bed, and little to no carbs, except maybe some fiber. So something like…

40 grams of protein
20 grams of fat

This would be about 340 calories.

[quote]
I’ve an idea: I don’t like cottage cheese, but wouldn’t the protein be the same in natural yogurt?

here’s the plan- (protein/carbs/fat)

4 natural yogurt (20/24/11) = 275 cal
2 eggs(1=61g)h-boiled(14/1/14) = 186 cal
2 tsp flaxseed oil (0/0/8) = 72 cal

(this is the only time i take flxsd oil, 8 grams enough?)

total - (34/25/33) CALORIES = 533
%cal - protein = 25.5%, carbs = 18.8%, fat = 55.7%

now that I’m looking at it like this, maybe it’s not so great, any suggestions to help me fine tune this? Please, no more supps, what’s the best natural food combos?[/quote]

I would not take flax seed oil. I would replace it with fish oil (sorry, another supplement recommendation, albeit a fatty acid supplement.) Flax seed oil may not be the most beneficial thing for males, and the Omega-3 (Alpha Linoleic Acid) in flax must be enzymatically converted to the Omega-3 EPA and DHA found naturally in fish oil, and your body is not extremely effecient in converting the ALA.

Also, for my liking, for a cutting diet, it is too high in carbs.

How about half a can of salmon? The full fat stuff with the bones. Get your protein, omega-3s, and its cheap as hell. Maybe steam 10ounces of brocolli or cook some spinach and eat that with it, then go to bed.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:

Hate to jump in the middle of your debate here, but you guys are knoweledgable, maybe you can help…

No, my apologies, I’ve been hijacking threads like a son-of-a-bitch. My fault.

I’m broke right now, and supps are so much more money over here, so…

What NATURAL foods would be the best choice for me to eat before bed?

How many grams of protein should I get, and how much fat based on my bw?

I’d like to interject here and say that its not really based on your bodyweight, though that does factor in somewhat. What you need to do is have an idea of how many calories you’d like to take in per day, including the amount of fat, protein, and carbs you’d like to take in per day. Eat your meals during the day, allotting for a small meal within your guidelines before bed.
If you eat all your allotted calories for the day…well, I don’t think you’d really need to eat anything.

While cutting, I would personally allow for a 300-400 calorie meal consisting of protein and fat before bed, and little to no carbs, except maybe some fiber. So something like…

40 grams of protein
20 grams of fat

This would be about 340 calories.

I’ve an idea: I don’t like cottage cheese, but wouldn’t the protein be the same in natural yogurt?

here’s the plan- (protein/carbs/fat)

4 natural yogurt (20/24/11) = 275 cal
2 eggs(1=61g)h-boiled(14/1/14) = 186 cal
2 tsp flaxseed oil (0/0/8) = 72 cal

(this is the only time i take flxsd oil, 8 grams enough?)

total - (34/25/33) CALORIES = 533
%cal - protein = 25.5%, carbs = 18.8%, fat = 55.7%

now that I’m looking at it like this, maybe it’s not so great, any suggestions to help me fine tune this? Please, no more supps, what’s the best natural food combos?

I would not take flax seed oil. I would replace it with fish oil (sorry, another supplement recommendation, albeit a fatty acid supplement.) Flax seed oil may not be the most beneficial thing for males, and the Omega-3 (Alpha Linoleic Acid) in flax must be enzymatically converted to the Omega-3 EPA and DHA found naturally in fish oil, and your body is not extremely effecient in converting the ALA.

Also, for my liking, for a cutting diet, it is too high in carbs.

How about half a can of salmon? The full fat stuff with the bones. Get your protein, omega-3s, and its cheap as hell. Maybe steam 10ounces of brocolli or cook some spinach and eat that with it, then go to bed.

[/quote]

Hey thanks for the info!!

Here, I’m working on my diet, this is kind of a rough draft, I’ve been following it today, and I’m fuckin STARVING! I think it’s because before I ate a lot of whole grain rice, but I read some stuff here and decided that I would only eat veg for my carbs except for oatmeal every morning and w.g. rice the days I train, only 1 meal after.

This draft is only for days that I don’t lift, when I finish the lifting day draft it will be the same but the meal before and after the gym will change.

You seem like the person to ask about diet, so maybe you could give me a couple pointers, this draft has meal 1 - 5, I still have to put the before bed meal.

(Protein/Carbs/Fat)
olive oil xtra virgen(o.o.) - tsp=4g tbsp=14g,

“vegetables” - 450g frozen bag of ‘habas’ (31/73/>1) and 750g bag of medley of peas (15%), carrots (18%),cauliflour (10%), brussel sprouts (7%), green beans (30%), artichokes (10%), and ‘habas’(10%)===(20/51/3). These are boiled and mixed together to make “vegetables”
100g = 4/12/0 = 64 cal


wake up-3 eggs(scrambled with o.o.), 21/3/26(21+5)=330 cal oatmeal(60g)w/milk 9/38/4 = 224 cal
skim milk (1/2 liter), 16/24/1 = 169 cal
grapefruit (1/2), 1/13/0 = 56 cal

total - 47g protein, 78g carbs, 31g fat. CALORIES = 779
%cal - protein = 24.1%, carbs = 40.1%, fat = 35.8%


meals between ‘wake up’ and ‘last meal’ (meals 2, 3, 4, and 5 when no gym day)

chix salad - tomato (3 small), 3/14/0 = 68 cal
(meals 2+5) cucumber (1/2 cup), 0/2/0 = 8 cal
onion (1/2 small), 1/6/0 = 28 cal
hard boiled egg (1=61g), 7/1/7 = 95 cal
chicken (150g uncooked), 34/0/1 = 145 cal
o.o.(2 tsp+1 tsp to cook chix),0/0/12= 108 cal
white wine vinegar, salt

total-45g protein,23g carbs,20g fat.CALORIES = 452
%cal - protein = 39.8%, carbs = 20.4%, fat = 39.8%

hamburger w veg - ground beef (150g uncooked 95% lean), (meal 3 or 4) 32/0/8 = 200 cal
egg (1, scrambled), 7/1/7 = 95 cal
vegetables (150g), 6/18/0 = 96 cal
o.o.(2tsp w/veg,1 tsp cook hamburger) , 0/0/12 = 108 cal
salt

total-45g protein,19g carbs,27g fat. CALORIES = 499
%cal - protein = 36.1%, carbs = 15.2%, fat = 48.7%

salmon w veg - salmon (150g uncooked), 30/0/9 = 201 cal
(meal 3 or 4) vegetables (200g), 8/24/0 = 128 cal
o.o. (1 tbsp), 0/0/14 = 126 cal
salt
yogurt (1 natural), 4/5/2 = 54 cal

total-42g protein,29g carbs,25g fat. CALORIES = 509
%cal - protein = 33.0%, carbs = 22.8%, fat = 44.2%

total overall (5 meals) 224g protein, 172g carbs, 123g fat.
TOTAL CALORIES = 2691
%cal - protein = 33.3%, carbs = 25.6%, fat = 41.1%

Remember, this is supposed to be a cutting diet, but I really don’t have any idea what I’m doing, I just tried to keep the calories per meal close (except for breakfast) and the protein around 45/meal, and no rice only veg. I can tell you that this is definately a deficit from what I was eating, I feel like I’m going to starve to death right now, it is the first day though. Sure I’ll be fine in a week.

Any suggestions? Seeing this do you have a better idea for my 6th and last meal? Thanks a million!!!

I’m really interested in the whole reason behind not eating after 6 - you see, someone told me this last year when I was trying to cut and it was SO hard, but I did not eat after about 7-8 and then I woke up and worked out at 5AM after downing some whey. That was the only time I’ve successfully cut.

However, I don’t know if it was specifically because I didn’t eat before bed. Does anyone know?

And if it is the case, now that I’m gaining, would STILL not eating after 7-8 make my gains cleaner?

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
I’m really interested in the whole reason behind not eating after 6 - you see, someone told me this last year when I was trying to cut and it was SO hard, but I did not eat after about 7-8 and then I woke up and worked out at 5AM after downing some whey. That was the only time I’ve successfully cut.

However, I don’t know if it was specifically because I didn’t eat before bed. Does anyone know?

[/quote]
Sarah1,

Take a look at the exchange between Dedicated and myself regarding this topic. Not eating after 6 is not something that is set in stone, and 6 is just an arbitrary time. Fat loss is, for the most part of course, calories in vs calories out. However, fine tuning your calorie consumption with regards to type of calorie ingested and calories taken in over the course of time can lead to more optimal results.

Let’s use a hypothetical example. Say, for instance, a trainee is on a fat loss diet. They have determined 2500 calories to be their target calorie goal for smart, consistent weight loss. Their meal structure looks like this :

Meal 1: 6:00 AM -400 cals
Meal 2: 9:00 AM -400 cals
Workout
Post Workout Shake - 500 cals
Meal 3: 2:00 PM -350 cals
Meal 4: 5:00 PM -350
Meal 5: 8:00 PM -300
Meal 6 11:00 PM -200
Sleep

If this trainee discovered that he or she were not losing fat fast enough, and they adopted the practice of not eating after 6, they would lose ~500 calories, increasing their calorie deficit, and hopefully kick starting fat loss.

However, it would be better, in my opinion, to do one of two things.

  1. Do as dedicated did and replace the two meals at 8 and 11 with an ample dose of Branched Chain Aminos
  2. Simply reduce the size of all the meals during the day, keeping the same meal frequency. Something like:

Meal 1: 6:00 AM -300 cals
Meal 2: 9:00 AM -300 cals
Workout
Post Workout Shake - 300 cals
Meal 3: 2:00 PM -300 cals
Meal 4: 5:00 PM -300
Meal 5: 8:00 PM -300
Meal 6 11:00 PM -200
Sleep

This provides the same frequency of feedings, but with smaller calorie intake per meal, but results in the same reduction of 500 calories per day.

The goal is, of course, as you know, is to :

1)keep metabolism high by frequent food intake
2)prevent going long durations without food intake which can be excessively catabolic and negatively affect insulin sensitivity.

[quote]
And if it is the case, now that I’m gaining, would STILL not eating after 7-8 make my gains cleaner?[/quote]

Generally speaking, taking your daily calorie intake and dividing it up amongst as many meals per day as possible ( up to a point ) will yield better results than taking in the same amount of calories in larger, but less frequent meals. Your results may vary. The main factors in keeping gains clean are going to be determined by:

  1. proper macronutrient timing
  2. avoiding eating too large of a calorie surplus

Well, we all have different diet approaches we like best, so my recommendations are going to reflect my biases and may not work the best for you. I also have the luxury of using a great deal of branched chain amino acids and consequently my dietary recommendations may need to be adjusted for someone who doesn’t have this luxury. With that said, some general pointers I adhere to are :

-eating either protein+carb meals, or protein+fat meals.
-starchy carbs post workout only (you’re doing this, except morning)
-lots and lots of fish oil
-eating small, frequent meals

So, moving on to your specific draft…

[quote]danian1 wrote:

Hey thanks for the info!!

Here, I’m working on my diet, this is kind of a rough draft, I’ve been following it today, and I’m fuckin STARVING! I think it’s because before I ate a lot of whole grain rice, but I read some stuff here and decided that I would only eat veg for my carbs except for oatmeal every morning and w.g. rice the days I train, only 1 meal after.

This draft is only for days that I don’t lift, when I finish the lifting day draft it will be the same but the meal before and after the gym will change.

You seem like the person to ask about diet, so maybe you could give me a couple pointers, this draft has meal 1 - 5, I still have to put the before bed meal.

(Protein/Carbs/Fat)
olive oil xtra virgen(o.o.) - tsp=4g tbsp=14g,

“vegetables” - 450g frozen bag of ‘habas’ (31/73/>1) and 750g bag of medley of peas (15%), carrots (18%),cauliflour (10%), brussel sprouts (7%), green beans (30%), artichokes (10%), and ‘habas’(10%)===(20/51/3). These are boiled and mixed together to make “vegetables”
100g = 4/12/0 = 64 cal


[/quote]

I like this idea, but I would nix the peas and carrots and replace them with something more fibrous, like broccoli. Just my personal recommendation.

Here, if you’re gonna keep the oatmeal, I’d ditch the whole eggs and olive oil and make it perhaps one whole egg and 6-8 egg whites. Keep this meal low in fat.

Personally, I’d nix the tomatoes.

[quote]
hamburger w veg - ground beef (150g uncooked 95% lean), (meal 3 or 4) 32/0/8 = 200 cal
egg (1, scrambled), 7/1/7 = 95 cal
vegetables (150g), 6/18/0 = 96 cal
o.o.(2tsp w/veg,1 tsp cook hamburger) , 0/0/12 = 108 cal
salt

total-45g protein,19g carbs,27g fat. CALORIES = 499
%cal - protein = 36.1%, carbs = 15.2%, fat = 48.7%

[/quote] I like this. How much fiber is in those vegetables?

Looks good, I would, like I mentioned earlier, replace the peas and carrots with a more fibrous green vegetable. Assuming all this is an appropriate caloric deficit for you then I think you’ll do alright. Just be sure to give it a couple weeks, assess your results, and make any adjustments accordingly.

Once again, I’m gonna refer to CT’s “Refined Physique Transformation” article if you wanna read a really elaborate informative piece. You don’t have to follow all of it to a T, as dieting is a lot about finding what works for you, but its generally what I like to use.

[quote]

Remember, this is supposed to be a cutting diet, but I really don’t have any idea what I’m doing, I just tried to keep the calories per meal close (except for breakfast) and the protein around 45/meal, and no rice only veg. I can tell you that this is definately a deficit from what I was eating, I feel like I’m going to starve to death right now, it is the first day though. Sure I’ll be fine in a week.

Any suggestions? Seeing this do you have a better idea for my 6th and last meal? Thanks a million!!![/quote]

[quote]NewDamage wrote:

-lots and lots of fish oil

***When and how much fish oil do you take?

“vegetables” - 450g frozen bag of ‘habas’ (31/73/>1) and 750g bag of medley of peas (15%), carrots (18%),cauliflour (10%), brussel sprouts (7%), green beans (30%), artichokes (10%), and ‘habas’(10%)===(20/51/3). These are boiled and mixed together to make “vegetables”
100g = 4/12/0 = 64 cal

I like this idea, but I would nix the peas and carrots and replace them with something more fibrous, like broccoli. Just my personal recommendation.

***these are bags of frozen veg, i’ll see what other options I have, this mix seemed the best last time

wake up-3 eggs(scrambled with o.o.), 21/3/26(21+5)=330 cal oatmeal(60g)w/milk 9/38/4 = 224 cal
skim milk (1/2 liter), 16/24/1 = 169 cal
grapefruit (1/2), 1/13/0 = 56 cal

total - 47g protein, 78g carbs, 31g fat. CALORIES = 779
%cal - protein = 24.1%, carbs = 40.1%, fat = 35.8%

Here, if you’re gonna keep the oatmeal, I’d ditch the whole eggs and olive oil and make it perhaps one whole egg and 6-8 egg whites. Keep this meal low in fat.

***you said before you had the luxury of plentiful BCAAs, do you think that without this luxury 1 whole egg in the morning is enough for me? I didn’t think of this, but I have a 1/2 liter of milk with this meal which would strengthen your view of needing only 1 whole egg because wouldn’t milk have a complete aminogram as well?

chix salad - tomato (3 small), 3/14/0 = 68 cal
(meals 2+5) cucumber (1/2 cup), 0/2/0 = 8 cal
onion (1/2 small), 1/6/0 = 28 cal
hard boiled egg (1=61g), 7/1/7 = 95 cal
chicken (150g uncooked), 34/0/1 = 145 cal
o.o.(2 tsp+1 tsp to cook chix),0/0/12= 108 cal
white wine vinegar, salt

total-45g protein,23g carbs,20g fat.CALORIES = 452
%cal - protein = 39.8%, carbs = 20.4%, fat = 39.8%

Personally, I’d nix the tomatoes.

***Why? Sorry, this is one of my favorite, and I love tomatoes. By the way I did take out 1 tomato from every salad.

I like this. How much fiber is in those vegetables?

As you know when I write ‘vegetables’ they are the mix listed above. Every 100 grams of ‘vegetables’ has about 3 grams of fiber, didn’t know that before and now it doesn’t seem like enough.
How much should I be getting in a day?
With this quantity do you still think that I need to add broccoli for more fiber?
If so, what do you think about adding spinach instead of broccoli (already buying spinach)?

Thanks again! I’m still working hard on the diet, maybe halfway finished right now. I’m going to finish everything today or tomorrow and put up a new thread. Another question, should I be listing how much fiber each meal has as well? one more (im really sorry) what type of lifting program should I implement when cutting?-I was think something like a 4 day upper body push+pull+lower body push+pull and very low intensity cardio 5 days/week 40 min, or I was just reading about CW circuit training pullup-dip-deadlift which looked like it would be good for cutting, what do you think?

[/quote]

don’t know why my questions in the last post aren’t highlighted, but I put astericks next to them anyway.

Here’s the new ‘wake up’ meal with your suggestion of egg whites. I have to use a tiny bit of oil (i put 2 grams) becuase don’t want to spend half the morning washing the pan, maybe I’ll go get a good non stick pan…next month…:frowning:

wake up -
eggs (1=61g) (1 whole plus 5 white + coat o.o.), 27/4/9(7+2) = 205 cal

oatmeal (60g) with milk (milk cal with 1/2 liter milk) 9/38/4 = 224 cal

skim milk (1/2 liter), 16/24/1 = 169 cal

grapefruit (1/2), 1/13/0 = 56 cal

salt, multivitamin

TOTAL - 53g PROTEIN, 79g CARBS, 14g FAT. CALORIES = 654
%CAL - PROTEIN = 32.4%, CARBS = 48.3%, FAT = 19.3%

What do you think, still to much fat?

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
sarah1 wrote:
I’m really interested in the whole reason behind not eating after 6 - you see, someone told me this last year when I was trying to cut and it was SO hard, but I did not eat after about 7-8 and then I woke up and worked out at 5AM after downing some whey. That was the only time I’ve successfully cut.

However, I don’t know if it was specifically because I didn’t eat before bed. Does anyone know?

Sarah1,

Take a look at the exchange between Dedicated and myself regarding this topic. Not eating after 6 is not something that is set in stone, and 6 is just an arbitrary time. Fat loss is, for the most part of course, calories in vs calories out. However, fine tuning your calorie consumption with regards to type of calorie ingested and calories taken in over the course of time can lead to more optimal results.

Let’s use a hypothetical example. Say, for instance, a trainee is on a fat loss diet. They have determined 2500 calories to be their target calorie goal for smart, consistent weight loss. Their meal structure looks like this :

Meal 1: 6:00 AM -400 cals
Meal 2: 9:00 AM -400 cals
Workout
Post Workout Shake - 500 cals
Meal 3: 2:00 PM -350 cals
Meal 4: 5:00 PM -350
Meal 5: 8:00 PM -300
Meal 6 11:00 PM -200
Sleep

If this trainee discovered that he or she were not losing fat fast enough, and they adopted the practice of not eating after 6, they would lose ~500 calories, increasing their calorie deficit, and hopefully kick starting fat loss.

However, it would be better, in my opinion, to do one of two things.

  1. Do as dedicated did and replace the two meals at 8 and 11 with an ample dose of Branched Chain Aminos
  2. Simply reduce the size of all the meals during the day, keeping the same meal frequency. Something like:

Meal 1: 6:00 AM -300 cals
Meal 2: 9:00 AM -300 cals
Workout
Post Workout Shake - 300 cals
Meal 3: 2:00 PM -300 cals
Meal 4: 5:00 PM -300
Meal 5: 8:00 PM -300
Meal 6 11:00 PM -200
Sleep

This provides the same frequency of feedings, but with smaller calorie intake per meal, but results in the same reduction of 500 calories per day.

The goal is, of course, as you know, is to :

1)keep metabolism high by frequent food intake
2)prevent going long durations without food intake which can be excessively catabolic and negatively affect insulin sensitivity.

And if it is the case, now that I’m gaining, would STILL not eating after 7-8 make my gains cleaner?

Generally speaking, taking your daily calorie intake and dividing it up amongst as many meals per day as possibly ( up to a point ) will yield better results than taking in the same amount of calories in smaller, frequent meals. Your results may vary. The main factors in keeping gains clean are going to be determined by:

  1. proper macronutrient timing
  2. avoiding eating too large of a calorie surplus

[/quote]

New Damage, great info and I heartily agree!

D

[quote]danian1 wrote:
don’t know why my questions in the last post aren’t highlighted, but I put astericks next to them anyway.

Here’s the new ‘wake up’ meal with your suggestion of egg whites. I have to use a tiny bit of oil (i put 2 grams) becuase don’t want to spend half the morning washing the pan, maybe I’ll go get a good non stick pan…next month…:frowning:

wake up -
eggs (1=61g) (1 whole plus 5 white + coat o.o.), 27/4/9(7+2) = 205 cal

oatmeal (60g) with milk (milk cal with 1/2 liter milk) 9/38/4 = 224 cal

skim milk (1/2 liter), 16/24/1 = 169 cal

grapefruit (1/2), 1/13/0 = 56 cal

salt, multivitamin

TOTAL - 53g PROTEIN, 79g CARBS, 14g FAT. CALORIES = 654
%CAL - PROTEIN = 32.4%, CARBS = 48.3%, FAT = 19.3%

What do you think, still to much fat?[/quote]

This looks pretty good. Give it a go and see how you respond. I personally like to keep my meals slightly smaller than that, but try it out and if your calories are where they should be you should do well.

Thank you, sir!

Cool - thanks for the reply!!

sarah1, and danian1,

I’m no authority on this (except that I know it has worked for me) but when/if I want to lean out a bit (even with only a week to do it) going to bed hungry is always the way to go. The most I know about this response is that it’s a product of the natural growth hormone response your body enters into with sleep being exemplified as a result of your hunger.

Don’t know if you’ve heard of Art Devany (www.arthurdevany.com) but he’s a big fan of “intermittent fasting” for this very reason. If you do a search of his site for “growth hormone” or “intermittent fasting” you’d find a much more comprehensive description of the results you (sarah1) experienced. There’s also an article on T-Nation about Devany.

Hope this helps.