Prayer Causes School District Shutdown

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TX iron wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Yeah, it was an over reaction. It was an inappropriate assignment, but the assignment should have just been trashed and a different one given. If the teacher was aware of what it said or intentionally set that up she should be disciplined. Not fired or anything, just written up or something.

[/quote]

Why is it an inappropriate assignment, within the context that the class was in particular phase of the course when students are being educated on the various religions (and their prayers and texts) of the world?

Yes, the scenario you mentioned would probably play out just as you say. As such, now more than ever is a time in which education is needed.[/quote]

It’s inappropriate because it’s a Social Studies class, not a class on islam. And the assignment requires the student to make a core statement of belief in ‘There is no God but Allah’. If the teacher had the students writing ‘Jesus is Lord’ you can bet the left would have had a world class hissy fit.[/quote]

They were at the point in the curriculum where they were learning about world religions, because of course religion greatly impacts the world. I understand what you’re saying, and if that’s the only thing that they wrote then you’re right. But I remember doing assignments with the Lord’s Prayer, “Our father who art in heaven” even though I’m not really a believer while in my World History/Geography class. I’m sure some folks had a little pout-session with that too, but lots of people like to pout when forced out of their comfort zone.

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Fair enough.

But this is a high school WORLD GEOGRAPHY class, not a college comparative religion course. [/quote]

I teach high school WORLD GEOGRAPHY, so I’m not sure what your point is here, other than you presenting statements that would lead the reader to assume that you personally presume to know the curriculum, or how it needs to be taught, better than the professional educators hired to teach it.

I don’t think learning more intricate details about major world religions is inappropriate. Religion is one of the major social institutions, it’s universal in its existence, and it’s a large component of so many cultures, though we all know belief systems vary (e.g., animistic religions, theistic religions and ethicalist religions).[/quote]

I see. I took Geography in 9th grade I think, and there were no damn prayer recitals. And this was in California.

I wonder how they depict the peace-loving prophet Mohammad? I imagine it’s sans a beheading or two.

It must be the new Common Core.

[quote]pat wrote:

It’s inappropriate because it’s a Social Studies class, not a class on islam. And the assignment requires the student to make a core statement of belief in ‘There is no God but Allah’. If the teacher had the students writing ‘Jesus is Lord’ you can bet the left would have had a world class hissy fit.[/quote]

I’m willing to bet you an actual one hundred dollars that the teacher had no idea what she asked her students to copy down actually said.

If you’re genuinely willing to take this bet, and are willing to do the research to find out whether she knew or not (because I can’t be bothered to, I’m just putting my money on the line that you’re talking out of your ass), mail me at the following e-mail with relevant information for me to send you money-

magickware99@gmail.com

It’s a dummy account I made for shit like this. That way I can keep personal information private if I genuinely want to challenge people.

Edit-

Let me actually modify this bet a bit, since in hindsight I suppose it’s entirely reasonable that the teacher would have googled the term “shahada” just to see what it means.

Do you genuinely believe that the teacher meant anything by having her students write that phrase down besides it just being part of the five pillars of Islam that seems to be a pretty common part of a high school world geography/world history class?

I’m modifying the bet by asking whether you genuinely believe this or not. If you do, then simply ask for your money and your preferred method of receiving said money.

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

I see. I took Geography in 9th grade I think, and there were no damn prayer recitals. And this was in California.

I wonder how they depict the peace-loving prophet Mohammad? I imagine it’s sans a beheading or two.

It must be the new Common Core.
[/quote]

You have to remember that there is no national curriculum. Common core for social studies has not been released, and even when it is, it’s doubtful that it will be that specific.

Teachers have wide latitude in how they choose to present the minutia of the district’s curriculum. The rest of how the religion is or is not academically presented isn’t relative to the specific discussion here. Any religious text, prayer, ceremony, or other sacred “aspect” of a specific religious dogma can be analyzed, discussed or presented in an academic setting for a secular academic purpose. Unless the teacher’s intent can be specifically shown to have had the purpose of proselytizing to his or her students, which I agree is wholly inappropriate and violates the Establishment Clause, then there is no issue here. The news article really answers none of that.

Though not my district, nor my community, a similar case here in the Midwest that has stirred the pot in a district where a friend works: http://www.mywebtimes.com/news/local/streator-parent-questions-islamic-lesson/article_acd37e5e-86c2-5c9b-8a05-94a52647bca9.html

Same issue, different circumstances, but again the same misinformation about what can or cannot be taught in public schools. You can teach ABOUT religion, but there should never be an overt or covert attempt to be anything more than neutral towards religious beliefs if you’re a teacher. This isn’t hard to do, and it’s common sense.

I have no idea how individual teachers across the country choose to present the Islamic faith. However, most standard world geography and sociology textbooks have a chapter or insert on the five major world religions. A teacher can supplement with whatever s/he chooses in addition to the textbook. Some, such as mine, have additional information on other religions, suck as Sikhism, Confucianism, Shintoism and various indigenous religions that might share some overlapping components. It’s hard to ignore religious studies as a component of human geography. Given all of the attention rightly given to Islamic fundamentalism recently, in light of developments in Syria, as well as terror attacks in France and in California, there may well be a reason the instructor wanted students to analyze that Shahada, since it’s the first of the Five Pillars.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

It’s inappropriate because it’s a Social Studies class, not a class on islam. And the assignment requires the student to make a core statement of belief in ‘There is no God but Allah’. If the teacher had the students writing ‘Jesus is Lord’ you can bet the left would have had a world class hissy fit.[/quote]

I’m willing to bet you an actual one hundred dollars that the teacher had no idea what she asked her students to copy down actually said.

If you’re genuinely willing to take this bet, and are willing to do the research to find out whether she knew or not (because I can’t be bothered to, I’m just putting my money on the line that you’re talking out of your ass), mail me at the following e-mail with relevant information for me to send you money-

magickware99@gmail.com

It’s a dummy account I made for shit like this. That way I can keep personal information private if I genuinely want to challenge people.

Edit-

Let me actually modify this bet a bit, since in hindsight I suppose it’s entirely reasonable that the teacher would have googled the term “shahada” just to see what it means.

Do you genuinely believe that the teacher meant anything by having her students write that phrase down besides it just being part of the five pillars of Islam that seems to be a pretty common part of a high school world geography/world history class?

I’m modifying the bet by asking whether you genuinely believe this or not. If you do, then simply ask for your money and your preferred method of receiving said money.[/quote]

I am not going to take a bet on the basis of her intention. I don’t know her intention and do not care enough to research it deeply. I was answering the basis of why the assignment was inappropriate, not whether or not she was intending that the students write down a statement of belief of islam. She may very well not had a clue. On the other hand, she should not be ignorant on the assignments she gives her students. Despite her intention, the assignment was inappropriate.

As stated in my first post, the reaction to it was an overreaction. It’s understandable in this day and age as to why people freak out about something like this. Nothing tightens an American’s asshole faster than the word ‘muslim’. It’s not a baseless fear.

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

I see. I took Geography in 9th grade I think, and there were no damn prayer recitals. And this was in California.

I wonder how they depict the peace-loving prophet Mohammad? I imagine it’s sans a beheading or two.

It must be the new Common Core.
[/quote]

You have to remember that there is no national curriculum. Common core for social studies has not been released, and even when it is, it’s doubtful that it will be that specific.

Teachers have wide latitude in how they choose to present the minutia of the district’s curriculum. The rest of how the religion is or is not academically presented isn’t relative to the specific discussion here. Any religious text, prayer, ceremony, or other sacred “aspect” of a specific religious dogma can be analyzed, discussed or presented in an academic setting for a secular academic purpose. Unless the teacher’s intent can be specifically shown to have had the purpose of proselytizing to his or her students, which I agree is wholly inappropriate and violates the Establishment Clause, then there is no issue here. The news article really answers none of that.

Though not my district, nor my community, a similar case here in the Midwest that has stirred the pot in a district where a friend works: http://www.mywebtimes.com/news/local/streator-parent-questions-islamic-lesson/article_acd37e5e-86c2-5c9b-8a05-94a52647bca9.html

Same issue, different circumstances, but again the same misinformation about what can or cannot be taught in public schools. You can teach ABOUT religion, but there should never be an overt or covert attempt to be anything more than neutral towards religious beliefs if you’re a teacher. This isn’t hard to do, and it’s common sense.

I have no idea how individual teachers across the country choose to present the Islamic faith. However, most standard world geography and sociology textbooks have a chapter or insert on the five major world religions. A teacher can supplement with whatever s/he chooses in addition to the textbook. Some, such as mine, have additional information on other religions, suck as Sikhism, Confucianism, Shintoism and various indigenous religions that might share some overlapping components. It’s hard to ignore religious studies as a component of human geography. Given all of the attention rightly given to Islamic fundamentalism recently, in light of developments in Syria, as well as terror attacks in France and in California, there may well be a reason the instructor wanted students to analyze that Shahada, since it’s the first of the Five Pillars.[/quote]

Back to Common Core.

When it’s released, you doubt it will have specific guidelines? I find it interesting that we will now have a national framework for social studies. I love how “they” decide what is important or not. Don’t you think Common Core will restrict your latitude?

I believe it was a calligraphy lesson in art class. I mean some of that writing, wherever it originates from, is art itself. Just a very poor choice by the teacher.

She could have done the alphabet and nobody could kick about that… or play it safe and do Japanese kanji characters. I really wonder about some of these teachers they have today.

Just to give ya’ll an idea of what’s going with PCness and education, lemme tell ya’ll what happened with teacher that personally spoke to.

This was a English class and the teacher was going to teach Greek mythology. Well, one of the kids parents took offense to this because she thought that it’s wrong to teach it because teaching it is the same as preaching it to this woman and the only faith she should know anything about is Christianity.

As stupid as it is, it is her right. So the teacher came up with an assignment equally difficult and teaching the same lessons as the Greek mythology, except it was over genesis. So after coming up with this entire new curriculum for that one girl, she decides that it’s okay after all to be taught Greek mythology.

The teacher knew this student well enough to know that it was just because she knew she wouldn’t get any ‘help’ with her assignments so she decided to do the original assignment after all! That’s rich haha. And this crap is going on all around the nation.

Education is so broken. And its because of people on both sides the aisle.

The liberals want this PC bullshit and ridiculous preferential treatment of minorities. In fact, that same high school run by incompetent black administrators set a strict quota for the number of the black kids that could be written up and sent to EC. Now, EC barely has any black kids in there. They’re almost all Hispanic and white. Despite the fact that the school has about a 1:1:1 ratio of white, black, and Hispanic.

There’s also this horse shit that administration decreed saying that teachers can’t grade students based on assignments, but they have to grade them based on their knowledge. Basically, this means that unless the kid just about missed every day of the year, teachers have to pass them.

There’s also the issue of trying to prep every student to be whatever they want and for college instead of helping students become prepared citizens and reach the fullest of their potential. Fact of the matter is that not every kid can grow up to be Snooky or a balla or has the talent and brains to go to college.

There’s also the issue of parents. Many of these parents will absolutely refuse to hear anything bad that their kid did because they just won’t believe that their precious baby is capable of doing wrong. Parents will pay for fancy shoes and clothes for their kids, but can’t seem to be able to buy basic school supplies and expect teachers to cough them up with their own paycheck.

The problem with conservatives is that they’re defunding public education. Don’t give me this crap about how America has the most education spending compared to other developed nations. Yes that’s true, but in and of itself its a misleading stat. The better stat for assessing how much money should go into public education is funding per student. In that regard, America is one of the lowest.

Without major reform, I can’t imagine how the US is going to remain strong in the future.

Video related:

[quote]pat wrote:

I am not going to take a bet on the basis of her intention. I don’t know her intention and do not care enough to research it deeply. I was answering the basis of why the assignment was inappropriate, not whether or not she was intending that the students write down a statement of belief of islam. She may very well not had a clue. On the other hand, she should not be ignorant on the assignments she gives her students. Despite her intention, the assignment was inappropriate.[/quote]

Well, if you had gone with my modified bet, you could have simply e-mailed me “yes” and be a 100 dollar richer for it.

In any case.

I don’t agree with your argument that the assignment was inappropriate, regardless of her intention. That kind of thinking is part of what spawned this PC culture to begin with, and eventually caused it to become the ridiculous monster it is now, imo.

Intention matters a lot. I believe the intent behind an action should be the dominant factor of determining anything about the action. Otherwise we’d have to take every action at face value, and this makes it quite difficult to control our response to them.