T Nation

Prami Not Working - Test Prop/Npp Cycle


#1

Started Test Propionate at 75mgED NPP 50mg ED. Liquid Pramipexole at .25 ed. Started getting soar nipples so upped Prami to 1mg ED! Still did not help, so I dropped the npp along with the prami completely and the nipples are perfectly fine now. So currently just running the test prop at 75 ED until I get this figured out. My question is, does prami take a couple weeks to take effect? I do feel that it is real prami because it makes me very sleepy and nauseas at 1mg per day. I have no prolactin issues while running tren A at 50 Mg a day so I'm confused why NPP is giving me this problem.


#2

different drugs affect different people differently.

I never had prolactin issues until I started GH and peptides. I woke up one morning, and one of my nipples was extremely sore and puffy.

so I gently squeezed around it, and discharged a good tablespoon worth of fluid. soreness was gone instantly, and the puffiness was completely reduced.

cool story huh?


#3

A couple of things:

You are expecting a dopamine agent to be effective against estrogen when its role in some cycles with decca involed is to help control prolactin.

No mention of an anti estrogen/serm.

The test will be causing the gyno, regardeless of other compounds.

My suggestions:

With any cycle containing test, use nolvadex or anastrozle on cycle. I prefer anastrozle at 0.5eod.

Add in hcg at 250 iu x 2 per week

And finally… DO YOUR RESEARCH


#4

one other thing… it is a common misconception that deca and tren being 19nor compounds they both increase prolactin. Wrong, tren does not have the same affect on this as deca, deca is much more aggressive. So the need for a dopamine agent such as caber or prami should only really be needed in most cases when deca is used.


#5

NPP and deca = nandrolone with different esters.


#6

[quote]dt79 wrote:
NPP and deca = nandrolone with different esters.[/quote]

Agreed.

Hence,

“I have no prolactin issues while running tren A at 50 Mg a day so I’m confused why NPP is giving me this problem.”

“one other thing… it is a common misconception that deca and tren being 19nor compounds they both increase prolactin. Wrong, tren does not have the same affect on this as deca, deca is much more aggressive. So the need for a dopamine agent such as caber or prami should only really be needed in most cases when deca is used.”


#7

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:
A couple of things:

You are expecting a dopamine agent to be effective against estrogen when its role in some cycles with decca involed is to help control prolactin.

No mention of an anti estrogen/serm.

The test will be causing the gyno, regardeless of other compounds.

My suggestions:

With any cycle containing test, use nolvadex or anastrozle on cycle. I prefer anastrozle at 0.5eod.

Add in hcg at 250 iu x 2 per week

And finally… DO YOUR RESEARCH[/quote]

Nolvadex (a SERM) should never be thought of as interchangeable to anastrozole (an AI).

AI’s control aromatization, and SERMs prevent the binding of estrogen to the receptors.


#8

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:
A couple of things:

You are expecting a dopamine agent to be effective against estrogen when its role in some cycles with decca involed is to help control prolactin.

No mention of an anti estrogen/serm.

The test will be causing the gyno, regardeless of other compounds.

My suggestions:

With any cycle containing test, use nolvadex or anastrozle on cycle. I prefer anastrozle at 0.5eod.

Add in hcg at 250 iu x 2 per week

And finally… DO YOUR RESEARCH[/quote]

Nolvadex (a SERM) should never be thought of as interchangeable to anastrozole (an AI).

AI’s control aromatization, and SERMs prevent the binding of estrogen to the receptors.[/quote]

For on cycle gyno prevention they are most definitely interchangeable. Agreed they work in completely different ways, but both prevent gyno.

I use arimidex on cycle at 0.5 eod and nolva during PCT 40/40/20/20. Many people, including “shadow pro”, recommend and prefer nolvadex on cycle at 20mg ed but agree Arimidex can also be used on cycle. Results differ from person to person. I have yet to try nolva on cycle for gyno control as the theory behind an AI as opposed to a SERM makes more sense to me for the intended purpose.


#9

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:
A couple of things:

You are expecting a dopamine agent to be effective against estrogen when its role in some cycles with decca involed is to help control prolactin.

No mention of an anti estrogen/serm.

The test will be causing the gyno, regardeless of other compounds.

My suggestions:

With any cycle containing test, use nolvadex or anastrozle on cycle. I prefer anastrozle at 0.5eod.

Add in hcg at 250 iu x 2 per week

And finally… DO YOUR RESEARCH[/quote]

Nolvadex (a SERM) should never be thought of as interchangeable to anastrozole (an AI).

AI’s control aromatization, and SERMs prevent the binding of estrogen to the receptors.[/quote]

For on cycle gyno prevention they are most definitely interchangeable. Agreed they work in completely different ways, but both prevent gyno.

I use arimidex on cycle at 0.5 eod and nolva during PCT 40/40/20/20. Many people, including “shadow pro”, recommend and prefer nolvadex on cycle at 20mg ed but agree Arimidex can also be used on cycle. Results differ from person to person. I have yet to try nolva on cycle for gyno control as the theory behind an AI as opposed to a SERM makes more sense to me for the intended purpose. [/quote]

no, they are not interchangeable. if one correctly manages E2, then there is most likely not a need for an on-cycle SERM. however, if one gets on cycle gyno, then one is most likely need BOTH to correct the issue.

another reason why they are not interchangeable, is that SERMs actually raise total E2, whereas AI’s don’t.

as far as Shadow’s recommendations… no comment.


#10

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:
A couple of things:

You are expecting a dopamine agent to be effective against estrogen when its role in some cycles with decca involed is to help control prolactin.

No mention of an anti estrogen/serm.

The test will be causing the gyno, regardeless of other compounds.

My suggestions:

With any cycle containing test, use nolvadex or anastrozle on cycle. I prefer anastrozle at 0.5eod.

Add in hcg at 250 iu x 2 per week

And finally… DO YOUR RESEARCH[/quote]

Nolvadex (a SERM) should never be thought of as interchangeable to anastrozole (an AI).

AI’s control aromatization, and SERMs prevent the binding of estrogen to the receptors.[/quote]

For on cycle gyno prevention they are most definitely interchangeable. Agreed they work in completely different ways, but both prevent gyno.

I use arimidex on cycle at 0.5 eod and nolva during PCT 40/40/20/20. Many people, including “shadow pro”, recommend and prefer nolvadex on cycle at 20mg ed but agree Arimidex can also be used on cycle. Results differ from person to person. I have yet to try nolva on cycle for gyno control as the theory behind an AI as opposed to a SERM makes more sense to me for the intended purpose. [/quote]

no, they are not interchangeable. if one correctly manages E2, then there is most likely not a need for an on-cycle SERM. however, if one gets on cycle gyno, then one is most likely need BOTH to correct the issue.

another reason why they are not interchangeable, is that SERMs actually raise total E2, whereas AI’s don’t.

as far as Shadow’s recommendations… no comment.[/quote]

Guess I am going to agree to disagree mate lol. At least we both agree AI is better on cycle and a SERM for PCT.


#11

either way the lad needs some estrogen control lol


#12

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:
A couple of things:

You are expecting a dopamine agent to be effective against estrogen when its role in some cycles with decca involed is to help control prolactin.

No mention of an anti estrogen/serm.

The test will be causing the gyno, regardeless of other compounds.

My suggestions:

With any cycle containing test, use nolvadex or anastrozle on cycle. I prefer anastrozle at 0.5eod.

Add in hcg at 250 iu x 2 per week

And finally… DO YOUR RESEARCH[/quote]

Nolvadex (a SERM) should never be thought of as interchangeable to anastrozole (an AI).

AI’s control aromatization, and SERMs prevent the binding of estrogen to the receptors.[/quote]

For on cycle gyno prevention they are most definitely interchangeable. Agreed they work in completely different ways, but both prevent gyno.

I use arimidex on cycle at 0.5 eod and nolva during PCT 40/40/20/20. Many people, including “shadow pro”, recommend and prefer nolvadex on cycle at 20mg ed but agree Arimidex can also be used on cycle. Results differ from person to person. I have yet to try nolva on cycle for gyno control as the theory behind an AI as opposed to a SERM makes more sense to me for the intended purpose. [/quote]

no, they are not interchangeable. if one correctly manages E2, then there is most likely not a need for an on-cycle SERM. however, if one gets on cycle gyno, then one is most likely need BOTH to correct the issue.

another reason why they are not interchangeable, is that SERMs actually raise total E2, whereas AI’s don’t.

as far as Shadow’s recommendations… no comment.[/quote]

Guess I am going to agree to disagree mate lol. At least we both agree AI is better on cycle and a SERM for PCT.
[/quote]

well, i think you really agree, because it’s what you do for your own cycles…

i find when someone says to take Nolva on cycle, they’re used to the era where AI’s were not available. back then, it was Nolva (and Proviron if you had the cash) on cycle, and Clomid for PCT…

it’s pretty simple, though:

AAS cycle>high estrogen>gyno+SERM=less gyno (maybe) and high estrogen still (which is a nightmare going into PCT, due to the suppressive nature of E2)

AAS cycle+AI=no gyno and normal E2 levels

^and with that being said, gyno is not the only negative to high estrogen. water retention causes kidney issues, high E2 screws up liver values, etc…

one of the most annoying (and sadly, most common) posts here, is when somebody went into a cycle without estrogen management. it is simply too easy to get AI’s and blood work done on your own now… hell, research chem AI’s are cheaper than my monthly vitamins. 15 years ago A-dex by itself prolly cost more than the rest of your cycle…


#13

Haha AGREED.

Tell me about it, I have only recently started getting involved in the forum out of pure frustration on mainly younger guys starting cycles without even the slightest clue. Im
no expert but It feels good trying to guide newbies in the right direction.


#14

[quote]AndyJones1992 wrote:
Haha AGREED.

Tell me about it, I have only recently started getting involved in the forum out of pure frustration on mainly younger guys starting cycles without even the slightest clue. Im
no expert but It feels good trying to guide newbies in the right direction. [/quote]

That’s great. Do post more.


#15

I forgot to mention I was using Arimidex … The letro sole when I felt the gyno onset, Along with the Prami but they did nothing. I’m still on test without an AI or prami (obviously) and I have no gyno flare’s whatsoever. So it had to have been progesterone or prolactin or w.e. But I would like to know why the Prami wasn’t working for this issue. The prami was real I’m sure because it gave me nausea and made me very sleepy.

I only ran the npp for about a week w/ the prami and already had signs of prolactin gyno appearing so the npp kicked I’m extremely fast! Does prami take time to take effect? Like should I begin the prami a week or two before the NPP? Or should I just order same Caber and try that? Npp is a drug I really want to stick with! Sorry if not making much sense it’s 5am. Please help me though.


#16

Im not too sure on the science behind gyno being caused in this way when an anti estrogen is being used and a dopamine agonist.

I would just accept everyone is different, all compounds effect people in different ways. So, I would ditch the NPP. Personally I see no benefit to Nandrolone in the form of deca or NPP over a tren/test combination.

You say you have used tren successfully without any problems… stick with it.


#17

I never said I did not have issues with Tren. 50mg a day made my hair shed in the shower after a few short weeks. I also turn into a different human being on that crap. No I don’t have gyno issues with tren but npp/deca are safe on the hair. That is why I’m trying to figure out the issue I have with NPP. Combating progesterone is possible…

All I want to know is how but you give me the dumbest answers… Lol sorry but answering the one question I have is a lot more effective than thinking of another drug I could use. I guess I’m going to give it another go with Caber instead this time.


#18

[quote]DarkHypnotiq wrote:
I never said I did not have issues with Tren. 50mg a day made my hair shed in the shower after a few short weeks. I also turn into a different human being on that crap. No I don’t have gyno issues with tren but npp/deca are safe on the hair. That is why I’m trying to figure out the issue I have with NPP. Combating progesterone is possible…

All I want to know is how but you give me the dumbest answers… Lol sorry but answering the one question I have is a lot more effective than thinking of another drug I could use. I guess I’m going to give it another go with Caber instead this time. [/quote]

why don’t you get bloodwork?


#19

I will get blood work after I get caber and start back on NPP. If NPP doesn’t work I’ll go with EQ


#20

“Lol sorry but answering the one question I have is a lot more effective than thinking of another drug I could use”

“If NPP doesnt work ile go with EQ”

lol