T Nation

Powerlifting & Olympic Lifting


#1

hey everyone...
i'm not new to the site but it's my first post. i run the 55 meter and 100 meter dash at Trinity College in CT. i'm fast and i've been lifting for awhile so i'm pretty strong.

i've just started doing a lot of research on olympic lifting and how it converts over "better" than powerlifting for explosive movements, power, and quickness. that aside, i was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to how i could develop a workout program that would maximize powerlifting and olympic lifting, in other words, how i could best integrate the two for maximum strength and power gains. thanks in advance..

bigblue


#2

Not all powerlifters train only for powerlifting ONLY, or vice versa.

I have found that speed movements like snatches, powercleans and clean and jerks actually do carry over to powerlifting.
Benedict Magnusson who just got the world record 970 deadlift openly tells people that the reason he is so strong is that he does sprints and olympic movements to assist his powertraining.

I have treid various programs and the thing that works best for me is a Westside oriented routine that basically has
1. heavy day, multy joint exercise 3-6 reps
2.pump day- blood volumizing
3 speed day- light explosive

the heavy gives you true strength
the pump help repair and look good
the speed makes you fast

I am a pure powerlifter, but at 198 I can run a 4.8 forty, clean and jerk 280 and deadlift 623

I love olympic lifts and can believe that they can only help you in reaching maximum verlocity.


#3

Do your explosive oly movements first, follwed by the more traditional power movements.

Cleans, snatches , jerks, or variation followed by Squat, Deadlift, or heavy press or variation. Then assistance work like pressdowns, glute ham raise, curls, whatever

Ex: Today I did behind the neck push jerks, followed by heavy incline presses, then I hit up some assistance work.....

Works for me.


#4

According to Charlie Francis, quick lifts (i.e. olympic lifts) do NOT convert "better" than power lifts. They are simply a way to tax the CNS and coax it into allowing you to produce more power overall. Ben Johnson never did cleans or other olympic lifts at all, but he did 1/2 (powerlifting) squats and bench.

He tried to move heavy weight as fast as possible, which many coaches claim will help you. It will. Basically, attempting (really visualizing and trying) to move a weight fast will encode "fast and strong" into your brain, and it will have neural carryover into other tasks which require short, intense bursts.

You get more CNS involvement with heavy weight, although lighter weights can have a positive effect. Basically, the Olympic lifts aren't "better" than the powerlifts. In the end, consistency is the key.


#5

Olympic lifts have to be performed quickly at heavier weights. Whereas powerlifts tend to be performed more slowly at heavier weights.


#6

This can be easily down. If you want to perform cleans, snatches and jerks, you could do it a couple different ways with powerlifting. When you say powerlifting i assume that you mean westside. Here is what i would probably do.

ME squat day
power snatch or clean
-75-80% of 1RM for 10-15 singles
ME squat/deadlift exercise
-work up to a 1-3RM
assistance work
-low back, hams, abs

ME bench day would be done as usual

DE squat day
power snatch
-work up to 1RM, then singles at 90%
power clean
-work up to 1RM, then singles at 90%
dynamic box squats
-6-8x2 at 50-60%1RM
assistance work
-low back, hams, abs

DE bench day
push jerk or push press
-work up to 1RM, then singles at 90%
dynamic effort bench
-6x3@50-60% of 1RM
assistance work
-lats, upper back, triceps

The power cleans and snatches dont always have to be from the floor, they can also be from the hang or from boxes of different heights. And you dont have to do the olympic movements first. It just depends on whether you want to emphasize speed or strenght. If you want to emphasize speed to the olympic movements first.

If you want to emphasize strength to the max effort movements first. What i would probably do since your a sprinter is do the max effort movements first in the off season and pre-season start using more explosive stuff first to get you ready for track season.


#7

Benedict Magnusson who just got the world record 970 deadlift openly tells people that the reason he is so strong is that he does sprints and olympic movements to assist his powertraining.

Hey moonjumper,
WTF... you're kidding right?

Why the BS? Next, you'll be telling us Coleman won all those Mr Olympia titles because he uses creatine.

bigblue244,
Now let me "openly" tell you the honest reason why anyone these days ends up setting a record lift. It's called injecting syringes full of juice and HGH in their butt. Don't even waste your time with Olympic circus stunts. Practically all the best track and field athletes are using the needle. It simply comes down to who gets caught. They might as well give their medals and awards to their pharmacist. I'm not implying you're juicing or intend to in the future. As an Exercise Specialist, I would tell you to just train Safe, Smart, and give it 100%. Think about it; was Jesse Owens utilizing Olympic weight training? Can resistance training help? Not to the extent many would have you believe. Real speed is "purely genetic". Artificially, yes, one can significantly increase their speed, but "THEY" never really win anything. It's the "DRUGS".

Hey moonjumper, let's ask Bonds what he thinks. Ohh... that's right, he didn't know what he was taking. How about Marion Jones? Maybe Tim Montgomery? Ben Johnson? How about Flo Jo? Oops... she's dead. I know, let's ask the entire Bulgarian Olympic weight lifting team or the entire Chinese Olympic women's swim team? Don't even get me started on the so-called "transfer-over effect". You had better have another look at those studies. Especially, the protocols and CONTROL GROUPS used. What a crock of S*#@. The latest and most "accurate" studies (non-drug users) indicate there is "MINIMAL" (aka "inconsequential") gain regarding speed, vertical leap, or strength.

It's not humanly possible to be that freaking ignorant. You're just a flat-out liar by omission and distortion of the facts. But don't sweat it, you're definitely in the majority here, and unfortunately for the youth of tomorrow, the wave of the future.

Congratulations


#8

Dude Don't waste your time, they never will believe you because everyone wants a hero and to most people heros can't use anabolics. I've said this before, when everyonedies and goes to heaven ask God how many pro athletes used anabolics and you'll al be real pissed at your hero.

I personally agree w/ moonjumper about the cross training cycles, but he did leave out the other cycles. Those fuckin Europeans jack anything they can at all times. You can forget HGH they're running Tren Blends w/ Test and Anadrol, which is the eqivalent of Jet Fuel in a NASCAR.


#9

here goes the interesting thing.

Where did he say there was no drugs involved?


#10

hmmm... even more interesting...

where does he say there are drugs involved?


#11

Maybe because he was discussing training he wasnt going into any guesses at drugs?

OR maybe he doesnt take a myopic view like you did in your post that "Now let me "openly" tell you the honest reason why anyone these days ends up setting a record lift. It's called injecting syringes full of juice and HGH in their butt."

Surely you would break Benni's (well now Andy's) record just by sticking a needle in your butt? because thats the only reason. Training has nothing to do with it, does it?


#12

This is why I disregard pretty much anything anyone says about lifting that isn't backed up by numbers. Exercise is such a psuedoscience but no one wants to admit it. Come on, let's have someone on here bring up their own bastardised understanding of F=ma.


#13

cycomiko,

What was I thinking? Of course, the record lift was all about the training. I apologize. You?re absolutely right.

Now get a clue. By dismissing the obvious, you condone it. Your values (lack of), are not mine.

If your posture is to play ?Devil?s Advocate?, you?re wasting cyberspace.

Am I myopic? no.

Crusader? maybe.

I despise drug use (who?d believe it?). I?ve personally kept dozens of young potential users from dropping that first cycle. My informed opinion? only the truly weak and foolish want to indulge. And for what? Narcissism, Ego, fuckin Notoriety, maybe the almighty dollar? How about dying young?
[Three theoretical exceptions besides the legal use for specific Medical Conditions:
1) Correction Officers; 2) Combat Designated Military Occupational Specialties; 3) Undercover DEA agents (just kidding)]

BTW, what the FUCK is your argument about?
Some how you?ve seemed to contrast training the planet?s elite strongmen ~ to training sprinters.
That?s freaking brilliant.
Do you also have some diluted belief that sprinters can get to the top by ?JUST THEIR TRAINING METHODOLOGY?? Maybe over 30 years ago. Today, drugs have set the bar way too high. Mr, you?re killing me. You need to get off the crack. Instead of the D-bol, consider Thorazine.

Let?s set the record straight (excuse the pun). As the athletes start USING at a younger age, all the while, the next generation of drugs become more effective (not necessarily safer), the records will fall (coincidentally, at a faster AND more pronounced rate). Yesterday ?Benni? (what is this guy, your best friend?), today ?Andy?, tomorrow ?cycomiko?.

PS You asked ?Training has nothing to do with it, does it? In this particular case, It doesn?t. Good old ?Benni? (why do I want to say Barry?) wouldn?t place in the top 10,000 if not for the pharmaceuticals.

What do you NOT understand? Training? Drugs? Genetics? To you, they?ve all coalesced into ONE big? it?s all relative? they?re all on some kind of shit? so if you...

?Do these exercises this way at x amount of sets for so many reps every other full moon with Groundhog Day off... you?ll get strong as shit.?

WTF!!! If you think that is the key mankind should be striving for in his goal towards higher athletic aptitude, you?re a fuckin total lost cause. You?ll never get it. What?s next? bionics? genetic engineering of pure fast twitch muscle fibers? hyperplasia? or how about increased neural arborizing? and don?t forget greater capillary action with mitochondrian blah, blah, blah. Hey, but what the fuck, it?s all good, right? What ever it takes? except hard work and decades of training.

And FYI, at 37; benched 410 twice my weight, executed one arm pull-ups, and had a vertical leap of over 40?. I never even looked at the sauce. Either that makes me a ?FUCKING god? (LOL) or the Lord blessed me with some pretty good genetics. You figure it out.

I?m finished with you.

Argument over. Go jerk-off someone else.

What a fuckin complete waste of time.


#14

Only the truly weak, foolish, and ELITE atheletes in EVERY sport.


#15

You can do this sample program

squats
bench
row
power clean

deads
OHP
chins
Snatch

use a 5x5 or 3x3 set/rep scheme. This is but a template, so nothing is written in stone


#16

[Sorry for the poor text transfer on that last reply]

Viking69,

Appreciate the candor. We agree. You can also bet your life that is the only reason they are "the elite of today".


#17

To the original poster: don't even try to train or become better, because the only people who amount to anything are on drugs. You will never be as good as them, so just go workout for yourself and never compete in anything.

If you do compete, whenever you lose, just know that the guy who beat you was on juice and he'll die at age 30. So you're always the winner.

Never look at how the fastest or strongest people train because they're on juice and do special workouts that can't even be modified for normal humans.

Like I said, you might as well give up. Because you respect your body and don't juice, you will lose in everything you do. The steroid users are taking over. I couldn't even get a job at Hardee's because some guys that were on the juice applied and they could mop the floor so much harder and faster than me. I couldn't recover as fast because I'm a perfect human being and don't take steroids.

I used to be in the top ten in academics for my class, but then some kids started taking steroids and not only unseated me from the top ten, but won Nobel Peace Prizes.

My mom just started a cycle and now she cooks dinner in half the time, and sometimes cooks three dinners. If she puts on her two ply bench shirt, she can total Elite because of the shirt/juice combination, even though she has never trained with weights. If she cooks with the bench shirt on, she can bake a potato in under minute and have a cow killed, butchered, and grilled within the hour.

Bear


#18

Yeah, I'm sure Steve Nash is on the juice. Pedro Martinez is no doubt juicing as well. And let's not even debate Petyon Manning, who definitely has a GH gut.

If you were a major league baseball player who played during the era when steroids were legal, one could argue you would be pretty foolish to not take steroids.

Bear


#19

From an interview with Glenn Pendlay--


Donny Shankle has only trained for about a year, and is already Olympic style squatting over 600lbs (that?s completely raw, close stance, high bar, and butt to ankles) at 215lb bodyweight, and snatching about 10kilos below the American record. He will break the American record in the snatch within the next 6 months. Trey Goodwin was on the Junior World team last year, and is currently ranked 3rd in his weight in the country and about 10th overall.

Josh Wells went to junior worlds this year, and is lifting better in the same weight class than Trey did last year. Both he and Trey will clean and jerk over 400lbs in the upcoming year at bodyweights of around 180-190lbs. Both can already jerk it, they just need slight improvements in the clean. Both are very young and have a lot of improvement left. Justin Brimhall came really close to being the first guy I have seen to jerk over 400lbs while 16 years old this year, he did 375lbs at only 165lb bodyweight.

I would like to add that all these guys are 100% drug free...Wes Barnett is the greatest weightlifter the US has ever produced in my opinion, and should be considered a superstar of the weight training world. I think he was the overall best athlete in the US prior to the 2000 Olympics. He stopped competing in 2000. The Russians couldn?t believe he was clean, they didn?t think it was humanly possible to do what he did clean, but he was and he did. [Wes Barnett has clean and jerked 220 kilos or 484 pounds].


Let's not sell ourselves short by whining about drugs. It's not as if you have to be juiced to the gills and swilling GH for breakfast to squat 100 kilos. The drug-free bar is set higher than most human beings will ever reach with or without drugs.


#20

Hey Mr Bear,

If Nash, Martinez, and Manning are all clean, why do the others have to use?

Listen carefully:

"weak and foolish"

Sincerely though,

Wish everyone and their family a good holiday.