T Nation

Power Straight Exercise

Has anyone done a “power straight” (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Power/WtPowerStraight.html)?
I am stuck at the top of the pull-up portion of the lift. Can someone advise me as to how to get beyond this? Is it a question of strength or technique?
Thanks!
Dan

Start looking for “muscle-up” and you’ll probably have more luck finding info.

First, its not as easy as it looks.

It requires a good amount of strength.

It also takes a bit of technique and power. At a chin-up of +120 at 185lbs I still could not do one.

Here is what helped me:

I kept my 1RM up, and started working on speed chinups.

I did jumping muscleups.

Technique: Lean “through” the bar at the top of your chin up. Get your shoulders over the bar as soon as possible.

I can do about 4 or 5 straight on a bar now, at 185lbs. Easier to do on gymnastics rings.

You also have to use a false grip. Check out crossfit.com, they have a lot of demos on them. They usually use the rings though.

Here:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_MuscleUps.wmv

its http:// no www. if the link doesnt go through

http://www.beastskills.com/MuscleUp.htm

They have tutorials on a bunch of sick gymnastics shit. I can do 8 muscle ups with rings but don’t have a pullup bar with enough clearance to even try it on a bar.

Would you guys say that a pull up would be more effective than a muscle up?

I’ve actually been debating this lately. I just got my ironmind de rigeur weight belt today and i’m not sure if i should do pull ups or muscle ups.

Also, that Andreas Aguilar video is fucking sick.
Fucking sick.

[quote]blazindave wrote:
Would you guys say that a pull up would be more effective than a muscle up?
[/quote]

For overall upper body development, no. Muscleups are truly the upper body equivalent of a squat, only they are a lot harder. You will be hard pressed to do them with a weight belt though. If you need to add weight, I’d suggest an X-vest.

I don’t see how they’d be more effective than pullups. It seems to me like a neat trick, and nothing else.

[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
I don’t see how they’d be more effective than pullups. It seems to me like a neat trick, and nothing else.[/quote]

Not sure how you figure that.

You have to be able to pull yourself a lot harder than a pullup, the transition is hard, and you’re moving the load a greater distance in a short period of time.

If you meant that it will help you climb up onto things by doing a neat trip, then I guess you’re right about that part.

[quote]gi2eg wrote:
rmccart1 wrote:
I don’t see how they’d be more effective than pullups. It seems to me like a neat trick, and nothing else.

Not sure how you figure that.

You have to be able to pull yourself a lot harder than a pullup, the transition is hard, and you’re moving the load a greater distance in a short period of time.

If you meant that it will help you climb up onto things by doing a neat trip, then I guess you’re right about that part.[/quote]

Yes but i’d say the pull up is more like a squat and a muscle up is like a jump squat.

A muscle up is explosive and it’s like an olympic lift. Either you make it, or you don’t.
A pull up is more absolute and does not necessarily rely on momentum or explosiveness.
I’m just debating which would carry over better.
Would implementing both be a good idea or would it lead to over training?

You don’t have to pull yourself harder than a pullup, you just need a quick transition at the top. Maybe if your technique sucks, but if your technique sucks you probably won’t get it at all.

My main gripe (if you want to call it that) is that the skill factor is very high, to the point that, while a base of strength is needed, it’s pretty much all technique.

Blazindave’s comparison to a jump squat is actually pretty good. Even if you ignore the skill component, doing muscle-ups won’t improve your weighted pullup numbers.

[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
My main gripe (if you want to call it that) is that the skill factor is very high, to the point that, while a base of strength is needed, it’s pretty much all technique.

Blazindave’s comparison to a jump squat is actually pretty good. Even if you ignore the skill component, doing muscle-ups won’t improve your weighted pullup numbers.[/quote]

That’s right, i kick ass.
While i do agree that it’s mostly technique (wrist and shoulder placement) aren’t MANY olympic lifts all technique as well?
Snatch, power clean, etc…

My question is, once you have the technique down, would one gain more from pull ups or muscle ups/power straight? To be honest i think that they both have different uses:

pullups for pure strength a la squat/dead lift/ bench

muscle ups for power a la snatch, power clean, etc

My question would rather be, since both have their specific purpose, would doing both in one workout lead to over training?

If there’s one thing i REALLY hate about sports/training is how there is sooooo much to do and improve on but so little you can actually do and become good at it. Fuck overtraining right in the ass.

The learning curve is probably a bit too high. The payoff isn’t nearly as big as with the Oly lifts. Though I think you can definitely benefit from using rings for typical exercises (chins and dips) and even some iso holds if you can do them.

For upper body power I’d sooner do dynamic chins or reactive chins than muscle-ups.

I really see these kinds of exercises as terrible for regular strength development and at best pointless.

There really shouldn’t be any major advantage to muscle ups because the idea of one exercise being more physically demanding than another is bs. Once you master the technique if you find the muscle up is inherently harder because it involves isolating muscles and putting your arms in very high tension positions all you need to do is add more weight to the chin up to create the same level of tension or use isolation exercises. You do not need to use exercises like this that risk injury when you can do a combination of simpler ones for the same results.

It doesn’t make sense for strength training because you will be stronger/weaker at different parts of the exercise.

You may try to add X amount of weight and be able to complete half the lift but not the rest.

Like if I want the benefits of an overhead press and picking up the weight from below chest level rather than picking it up at an elevated height I could just do a reverse grip curl and an overhead press separately.

If I refuse to do an overhead press without being able to curl the weight up to my shoulders the growth of my shoulders and triceps will eventually become stunted since they will improve faster than the muscles which curl the bar up but I won’t be able to work them until the rest catch up.

I don’t like muscleups… coz I can’t do them yet. Seriously, I don’t see a problem doing muscleups. I see it as the upper body equivalent of a clean and jerk.

[quote]nothingclever wrote:
I really see these kinds of exercises as terrible for regular strength development and at best pointless.

There really shouldn’t be any major advantage to muscle ups because the idea of one exercise being more physically demanding than another is bs. Once you master the technique if you find the muscle up is inherently harder because it involves isolating muscles and putting your arms in very high tension positions all you need to do is add more weight to the chin up to create the same level of tension or use isolation exercises. You do not need to use exercises like this that risk injury when you can do a combination of simpler ones for the same results.

It doesn’t make sense for strength training because you will be stronger/weaker at different parts of the exercise.

You may try to add X amount of weight and be able to complete half the lift but not the rest.

Like if I want the benefits of an overhead press and picking up the weight from below chest level rather than picking it up at an elevated height I could just do a reverse grip curl and an overhead press separately.

If I refuse to do an overhead press without being able to curl the weight up to my shoulders the growth of my shoulders and triceps will eventually become stunted since they will improve faster than the muscles which curl the bar up but I won’t be able to work them until the rest catch up.

[/quote]

I see your point. But:

A muscle-up does have carry-over to being able to climb things. The OP may not care about this at all, but some people do.

A muscle-up is going to be more physically demanding than a chin-up and a dip separately. Rather than thinking of it as an “olympic lift like” pullup, I think of it like a thruster (front squat+overhead press). Greater distance traveled, shorter period of time, takes coordination/body awareness.

I’d bet that nobody on this forum can do more than 15 from a dead-hang (and that’s a stretch).

They are not necessary, not by any means. That said, I think that most people could and should learn how to do one.

Olympic lifts aren’t necessary to get strong either. Look at some of the great coaches that don’t really use them much (cressey and defranco come to mind). That’s not to say that they’re not worth learning.

Gymnastics= high levels of athleticism.

[quote]rmccart1 wrote:
For upper body power I’d sooner do dynamic chins or reactive chins than muscle-ups.[/quote]

These should stay in your program even if you do muscle-ups.

I wonder if it’s possible to do one arm muscle ups.
I think i just found a new goal.

[quote]blazindave wrote:
I wonder if it’s possible to do one arm muscle ups.
I think i just found a new goal.[/quote]

you have to have it to your side, and i’ve only seen a video of it done climbing…not really the same.

and how the hell many 2 arm do you have?

single arm pullup soon?