T Nation

Power-Missing Link?

hey, there, i’ve been a lurker for far too long, and have learned quite a bit (so thankyou)
-dispite probably hundreds of hours logged here, books, and other articles and websites, theres something in my own training that i haven’t been able to pinpoint yet

i’ve been traing for 5 or 6 years, with plenty of bodyweight training for years before that (quite simplistic though, pushups and countless abwork), however i’ll be the first to admit most of my efforts were a waste of time or even worse, due to lack of direction and proper knowledge

-my focus has always been strength and power (and my lack of endurance resounds this truth), but i (like many idiots in highschool) focussed on upper body for the first few years

-now, i tend to be injury prone, and i think its partly from a lack of sports and that sort of thing when young and growing, and partly because i’ve knotted myself up to the mess of a 40yr old whos been lifting heavy without recovery all his life

-i’m only including these details because i’m afraid my inactivity while younger applies to my lack of power and coordination now

-i’m no magician but i’m relatively in good shape strength wise (260, 385(PL style) and 405 at 185, 6’1", and about 210 c+j, and 160 snatch), and i put most of my emphasis on power and have done a fair bit of speed work…but after all that…my vertical always seems to be lacking…after all of this work…

i dont know how my “sports performance” is, because i havnt really done to much, but the little that i try, i definitly feel much more powerful and in control than before

-anyways, besides bigger #'s, a higher vertical is/has been one of my main goals if not #1, but it doesnt seem to reflect what i should (in my mind) be able to do

-my vj is probably about 27-28 standing (hand touch), but even with a run up i dont get that much higher

-i am relatively fast twitch (or i just really have THAT bad of endurance haha), and my training styles reflect that, however, i am having trouble driving and using speed with heavier weights (even when i should be able to)

now, i’m sorry for such a long post…but maybe someone can relate, and hopefully someone will have some insight or spot the missing link that i could be clearly missing (i hate to give in to the genetic makeup failure!)

thx alot, and i look forward to any and all replies

Bro you give a ton of statements and no clear direct ?'s what exactly are you trying to accheive and whats laking you feel??

Phill

[quote]brian.m wrote:
hey, there, i’ve been a lurker for far too long, and have learned quite a bit (so thankyou)
-dispite probably hundreds of hours logged here, books, and other articles and websites, theres something in my own training that i haven’t been able to pinpoint yet

i’ve been traing for 5 or 6 years, with plenty of bodyweight training for years before that (quite simplistic though, pushups and countless abwork), however i’ll be the first to admit most of my efforts were a waste of time or even worse, due to lack of direction and proper knowledge

-my focus has always been strength and power (and my lack of endurance resounds this truth), but i (like many idiots in highschool) focussed on upper body for the first few years

-now, i tend to be injury prone, and i think its partly from a lack of sports and that sort of thing when young and growing, and partly because i’ve knotted myself up to the mess of a 40yr old whos been lifting heavy without recovery all his life

-i’m only including these details because i’m afraid my inactivity while younger applies to my lack of power and coordination now

-i’m no magician but i’m relatively in good shape strength wise (260, 385(PL style) and 405 at 185, 6’1", and about 210 c+j, and 160 snatch), and i put most of my emphasis on power and have done a fair bit of speed work…but after all that…my vertical always seems to be lacking…after all of this work…

i dont know how my “sports performance” is, because i havnt really done to much, but the little that i try, i definitly feel much more powerful and in control than before

-anyways, besides bigger #'s, a higher vertical is/has been one of my main goals if not #1, but it doesnt seem to reflect what i should (in my mind) be able to do

-my vj is probably about 27-28 standing (hand touch), but even with a run up i dont get that much higher

-i am relatively fast twitch (or i just really have THAT bad of endurance haha), and my training styles reflect that, however, i am having trouble driving and using speed with heavier weights (even when i should be able to)

now, i’m sorry for such a long post…but maybe someone can relate, and hopefully someone will have some insight or spot the missing link that i could be clearly missing (i hate to give in to the genetic makeup failure!)

thx alot, and i look forward to any and all replies[/quote]

haha, yeah, i have to stop posting when i wake up in the middle of the night for another snack!!!

-ok, my main goal is a higher vj
-i’m working towards this by (sometimes slowly, somethings quickly) improving postural/mobility issues, powerlifting and olympic lifting style training, and i cycle more general strenght and endurance now and again when i have to (and will bring plyos back into it in a couple of months most likely)
-on the side, i am also trying to and improving overall power and strength, coordination, size and vanities (beach work!..hey-everybody does a little lol)

Do you cycle your training reps and sets?

Do you cycle your exercises every 6-8 weeks?

The OLifts will jack up your vertical as well as doing correct plyometrics (not too intensive, 3 weeks at a time!)

Do you practice jumping?

Jack up your Snatch, that will increase your vertical. Gain less useless weight (bench press, curls, tricep work). The lighter you are the higher you’ll jump per strength ratio.

Koing

it doesn’t sound like you do much reactive work or jumping - do that and things will change in a hurry

let me quote my good friend JackM :stuck_out_tongue:
responding to someone

=====

Knowing that you’re probably gonna ditch what I’m fixing to say in favor of a bunch of complicated BS that will take you the next 6 months of your training time to figure out, here’s a very simple answer as to what I’d recommend you do:

  1. Get stronger. Until you’re going all the way down with 300 lbs on your back you simply don’t have the raw horsepower necessary to blast 192 lbs up in the air like you’d want.

  2. After you accomplish #1, shift into more explosive work.

  3. There is an easy (fast) way and a hard (long) way to accomplish the above.

A: The easy way consists of going to the gym every monday and friday or Monday and Thursday. On one day knock out sets of 5 in the squat followed by some Glute Hams for sets of 6-8. On the other day knock out sets of 6-8 in the bulgarian split squat followed by some more glute hams.

Maybe do some light squats as well just to keep the feel of the movement. Try to put more weight on the bar everytime you hit Mondays workout. Do this until you can throw around 300 for reps.

Prior to your workouts on Monday and Friday, as well as on Wednesday, do a low volume of some garden variety plyometric drills such as a few sets of lateral jumps, low squat hops and low box depth jumps or whatever else you want. They all do pretty much the same
B: I’ll let others tell you about the hard way.

  1. Once you have accomplished #3 you will now have a bigger motor in your car and can then focus on modifying that motor to get the most out of it.

4A. Keep the same basic schedule in place. Monday and Thursday or Monday and Friday etc. On one day do some depth jumps followed by some wave loaded jump squats for sets of 5 for a total of 4-5 sets of depth jumps and 8 sets of squats. The squat weights will vary between 20-50% of your max.

Do one set with more weight followed by one set with lighter weight and alternate back and forth until you’ve done all 8 sets. At the very end of your workout you might do a few sets of 3 reps with 80% of your squat, as well as a few glutehams, just to maintain your strength.

4B. On the other weekly workout make it a workout based around jumping and sprinting for PRs. Simply go out and get warmed up and try to jump as high as possible from a variety of starts (running, single leg, standing, bouncing off a box). Maybe add in some sprints if you want.

  1. When you no longer are getting consistent weekly results from 4A and 4B (which might take 3 weeks and might take a couple of months), then it’s time to start over with #1.

  2. Keep repeating Steps 1 through 5 for as many years as you like until you either get to where you want to be or until you get old, gray and worn out

thx for the replies

-i am cycling my workouts (finally)

-over the winter i spent much of my time trying to fix some imbalances and stuff, aswell as overall strength, and i’m phasing into more of a strength power cycle that i’ll do approx 2 months (with some oly work always) and i plan on phasing in more jumping and sprinting after this cycle is over, and hopefully the work will carry over to jumping ability after the transitions are complete…i guess i just kinda expected the raw strength gained to help out (vj hasnt increased much over 1-2 years (dispite significant strenght gains) when i was doing alot of plyos and practicing jumping (i know i was too weak to be efficient))…but i guess i’ve consistantly gained considerable weight (much on legs mind you) since then too…
-i guess i’ll just hope the plyo phase will kinda pull it all together, and then i’ll start my cycles over again from then

hijacking my own thread for a second, Koing, (first of all thanks for posting (all others also), i’ve looked to you for advice (unknowingly…man i’m really starting to sound like a creeper!) as i’m really getting into the oly stuff myself (started last summer, around the start of winter was when i really started dialing it in form-wise though to get into a little more challenging weights)
-jw though…my pull strength is pretty good (need to work on driving always i guess though), but i have trouble locking out my snatches (i guess with c+js too, i always can clean more than jerk, so maybe i just need to work on overhead strength)
-for instance i can easily power snatch more than i can full snatch
-partially flexibility and stability in a low squat while holding weight overhead
-but would it just be timing if i’m having a hard time locking out a weight i know i can do (getting it in to possition and then just not being able to finish it?)

-i’m currently doing power snatches, high pulls, push press, and sometimes will throw in overhead squats for my oly stuff
-when my knee heals, i’d like to put c+jerks back in (however its starting to suck having to catch jerks now that they’re getting heavier and i cant drop them…if anyone knows of any closeout prices on oly weights/bars in canada, let me know), and go back to full snatches
-it has to heal either way, but would i be better off afterwards just sticking to powersnatches until the weights to heavy and i need to slowly work my way lower , or should i try to get the timing down and get under it?
(for c+js too, my form is good overall…except my timing/or speed is off and i tend to have drop the weight onto myself then slow myself down in the descent, and then squat it all back up…i think i’m stronger than my forms allowing (atleast strong in the pull), but ending up going down and back up with it racked is just killin me(and my knee)

sorry for the jumble of words…but any advice besides just practice and more flexibility and front squats probably (feeling sheepish after probably answering my own question after the entire post)

[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
it doesn’t sound like you do much reactive work or jumping - do that and things will change in a hurry

let me quote my good friend JackM :stuck_out_tongue:
responding to someone

=====

Knowing that you’re probably gonna ditch what I’m fixing to say in favor of a bunch of complicated BS that will take you the next 6 months of your training time to figure out, here’s a very simple answer as to what I’d recommend you do:

  1. Get stronger. Until you’re going all the way down with 300 lbs on your back you simply don’t have the raw horsepower necessary to blast 192 lbs up in the air like you’d want.

  2. After you accomplish #1, shift into more explosive work.

  3. There is an easy (fast) way and a hard (long) way to accomplish the above.

A: The easy way consists of going to the gym every monday and friday or Monday and Thursday. On one day knock out sets of 5 in the squat followed by some Glute Hams for sets of 6-8. On the other day knock out sets of 6-8 in the bulgarian split squat followed by some more glute hams.

Maybe do some light squats as well just to keep the feel of the movement. Try to put more weight on the bar everytime you hit Mondays workout. Do this until you can throw around 300 for reps.

Prior to your workouts on Monday and Friday, as well as on Wednesday, do a low volume of some garden variety plyometric drills such as a few sets of lateral jumps, low squat hops and low box depth jumps or whatever else you want. They all do pretty much the same
B: I’ll let others tell you about the hard way.

  1. Once you have accomplished #3 you will now have a bigger motor in your car and can then focus on modifying that motor to get the most out of it.

4A. Keep the same basic schedule in place. Monday and Thursday or Monday and Friday etc. On one day do some depth jumps followed by some wave loaded jump squats for sets of 5 for a total of 4-5 sets of depth jumps and 8 sets of squats. The squat weights will vary between 20-50% of your max.

Do one set with more weight followed by one set with lighter weight and alternate back and forth until you’ve done all 8 sets. At the very end of your workout you might do a few sets of 3 reps with 80% of your squat, as well as a few glutehams, just to maintain your strength.

4B. On the other weekly workout make it a workout based around jumping and sprinting for PRs. Simply go out and get warmed up and try to jump as high as possible from a variety of starts (running, single leg, standing, bouncing off a box). Maybe add in some sprints if you want.

  1. When you no longer are getting consistent weekly results from 4A and 4B (which might take 3 weeks and might take a couple of months), then it’s time to start over with #1.

  2. Keep repeating Steps 1 through 5 for as many years as you like until you either get to where you want to be or until you get old, gray and worn out
    [/quote]

LOL sounds like Kelly B plan.