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Powder Suspension Options?


#1

I am unable to get my hands on some 190 proof Everclear where I am. The best I could do is 151 proof, which, from what I've read, really doesn't suspend the powder as well as the 190 proof and you need to use a significantly larger alcohol to powder ratio to prevent crashing.

Aside from capping, are there any good options available other than 151? I really hate the taste of alcohol and wouldn't want to have to swallow such a large portion of it if possible. As for what powders I have in mind, D-bol, Letro, Nolva, and Var are all possibilities. I'm guessing Letro wouldn't be a big deal to suspend in 151 since such a small dosage is needed anyway, but I'm more worried about having to swallow something like 50mg of D-bol everyday or 100mg of Var. Makes me want to yack just thinking about it. I know, I'm a wuss.


#2

Even if you have 20mg/ml of dbol solution, is it really that big of a problem to take .5ml 4 times a day?? Man up.


#3

Dbol tabs taste like shit, too. However, it's not worth starting a thread about.

Pour some water in your mouth, keep it there, then squirt your dose of dbol in, and swallow it all together.


#4

What about PEG? I'm having a hard time finding any recipes involving PEG. I mean, I found these recipes posted on another forum, but don't know if they would work:

Anadrol:
Highest concentration made - 50mg/ml
Per 1 gram of Oxymetholone you will need:
18.9 ml's of PEG 300

Anavar:
Highest concentration made - 20mg/ml
Per 1 gram of Oxandrolone powder you will need:
49ml's PEG400 or PEG300

Clomid:
Highest concentration made - 50mg/ml
Per 1 gram of Clomiphene Citrate you will need:
18.9 ml's of PEG 600

Nolvadex:
Highest concentration made - 20mg/ml
Per 1 gram of Tamoxifen Citrate you will need:
49 ml's of PEG 600

Proviron:
Highest concentration made - 50mg/ml
Per 1 gram of Mesterolone you will need:
18.9 ml's of PEG 300

Winstrol:
Highest concentration made - 25 mg/ml
Per 1 gram of Stanzolol you will need:
39 ml's of PEG 300

I've never used PEG, you guys think the recipes would work? Is the higher molecular weight (600 vs 300 or 400) used for powders that crash easier? In other words, if I only had 300 or 400 but the recipe says to use 600, does that mean the only problem I would have is not being able to get such a high mg per ml solution?


#5

I just put liquid dbol in a syringe.

Then get a mouth full of water or orange juice, shoot the dbol in, and then swallow it.

Try using something other than water in your mouth if the taste bothers you tremendously.


#6

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#7

Yes, I know I'm misusing the term "suspension", sorry about that.

1/3 of a shot might not be a huge deal, but if that were Var and I was taking 100mg/day it would be a bigger deal. I've heard of lots of people who end up running Var much higher than that even. Here's the thing, ever since I got alcohol poisoning months back, even the slight taste of liquor makes me want to hurl. Don't know why, before that even though I rarely drank, I could still slam shots like a champ. Also, call me paranoid, but the idea of drinking even a small amount of liquor daily while on a cycle that includes methylated orals just doesn't seem to sit well with me.


#8

Do you wear a helmet while doing day to day activities?


#9

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#10

If there aren't any other practical options, I probably will. Just wanted to avoid it because of the hassle it can sometimes become - especially if you want to get accurate dosages. I know that you mix the powder in some dextrose or something which would greatly broaden the margin of error, but getting about the same amount of powder in each capsule is easier said than done. I have a capping machine that I like a lot, but only really use it for things where an accurate dosage isn't all that critical. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but sometimes I'll pop open capsules that I have capped and weigh them and they all come up with varying weights. Maybe I'll weigh some again and figure out roughly how much they vary, and use a little math to determine approximately how much each dosage would likely vary on average. But again, I just figured mixing with a liquid would be much easier, quicker, and more accurate.


#11

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#12

My capping machine is the one that goes by "The Capsule Machine" and is sold on ebay. I wouldn't bet a quarter that my scale is as accurate as it claims to be (although it seems pretty close), but I am sure it's at least pretty consistent. So, I'd guess it's my technique that needs work. If you happen to have any tips or links that might help me out, I'd love for you to share. Otherwise I guess I will just keep practicing.


#13

lol, one can never be too careful.


#14

Here's my thread on this from a couple of months ago.

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/liquid_oral_concoctions_

I've actually found it to be MUCH harder to get many powders to hold in a pure alcohol solution (this is the word you're looking for, btw), and the alcohol I've been trying to use is 192 proof, believe it or not.

The recipe text posted at the top of the page leaves out some pretty important details. After some experimentation, I have found that PEG does, indeed, make creating a solution far easier than alcohol alone. The main thing is to combine the PEG and powder first, before adding the alcohol.

I had major trouble with nolva, and then last night, incidentally, I tried making it using PEG 600. The recipe states that the nolva is supposed to dissolve in the PEG first, but that was not happening at all. Eventually, I just said what the hell and added my alcohol. Addition of the alcohol at this stage caused the powder to dissolve immediately, which is quite different from what happened before, which is that I had to apply so much heat that I was boiling and evaporating my alcohol.

The solution appears to be far more stable now, and I am further encouraged by the fact that last night was quite chilly, chilly enough to solidify my PEG-600. Colder temperatures are a sure-fire way to get unstable solutions to crash. Well, my nolva still looks perfectly clear and I am pretty happy about it.

I had even more trouble getting letrozole to do anything. Indeed, I couldn't even get it to dissolve once at 1mg/ml. So this will be my next experiment.

Now, these solutions are still emetic, but you can mix with grapefruit juice or whatever and it completely masks the taste. However, pharmaceutical companies create cough medicine suspensions that are not bad at all using absolutely no alcohol, only other solvents. Which has me thinking about how to do this. I've been doing quite a bit of research into this, and I have some ideas, but I'm not going to share them at this point until I get someone to help me out and lead me a bit further down the path. I will say that the new ideas I have involve solvents not discussed here or on any thread I can find about making liquid orals. Everyone seems to think you must use alcohol, but I'm certain there's a better, tastier method out there.


#15

I agree with the PEG Cortes - but I am surprised about your Tamoxifen and Letrozole - as I get these to hold in as low as 120 proof myself.

PEG is certainly a BITCH to work with too.


#16

Mine sure as hell didn't want to hold. Like I said, I couldn't even get the letrozole to dissolve in the first place. Any idea of what I could have been doing wrong? It's not like there are a lot of complicated variables when it is just overproof alcohol and powder, right?

Anyway I don't know what the problem was earlier, but I am happy to report that it is colder tonight than last night, my PEG-600 has congealed to looked like cold bacon fat (had to heat it before I could use it to begin with, actually), and yet the nolvadex I brewed up last night (20mg/ml) is just perfect. I am happy to report that this method does, indeed, appear to work, but I am going to go ahead and go one extra step and throw it in the fridge overnight and see what happens. Gonna be pissed if it does crash, but if it holds through a night in the fridge, it should hold through anything. I'll report back tomorrow.


#17

You should have asked, I have been using PEG in certain orals for some time now.

Anyway - as per your tamox/letro - i have no idea..!

Tamoxifen i do it at 20mg/ml and letro at 2.5mg/ml. I do put them in large glass media bottles and shake the fucking twat out of them.. the letro does not dissolve immediately but is by the time i return to it the next day - but of course 2.5mg/ml is like one tiny speck per ml so it is hard to tell anyway!
Tamox is very easy - one of the best IME..

I bet micronizing them would help.. but other than all that i am just not sure.


#18

Practically speaking, can you guys explain the differences in molecular weight of the PEG? Why would one use PEG 300 vs 600 and vice versa?


#19

Thanks for this, JJ. Do you use heat, too? If so, do you apply heat before or after shaking it?


#20

I don't use heat really.

If it is a suspension and i use heat then when it cools it will drop back out of solution again - but it will be micronized (not sure if this is the correct term - but 'there are no lumps' any more!).