Potential for Average Powerlifter

Assuming that training and nutrition were optimal, what kind of raw and natural lifetime bests could be expected from an average male? Better yet, what numbers could be achievable for almost any male given that they trained and ate optimally? I know this is hard to pin down, but its an interesting question to ponder for those who might not have the best genetics.

Define “average”.

300 bench
400 squat
500 dead

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
300 bench
400 squat
500 dead[/quote]

That’s way low for what I think the OP is asking. A person with average genetics/potential for powerlifting who is smart and diligent with his training can expect “lifetime” best lifts that are quite high I believe.

Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.

Kroc has mentioned a few times that he doesn’t think he has very good genetics.

Screw genetics and just SFW man.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
300 bench
400 squat
500 dead[/quote]

That’s way low for what I think the OP is asking. A person with average genetics/potential for powerlifting who is smart and diligent with his training can expect “lifetime” best lifts that are quite high I believe.

Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.[/quote]

Agreed. Though 700 dead is a bit high IMO. The thing is, is that the numbers for actual lifts will vary, but a reasonable guess for a total would be 750kg or ~1650lb. Obviously no real data to go off of, but I think this seems reasonable. The trouble is, is that these numbers seem really great to a lot of people because they never come close to training optimally and eating optimally. In reality, the average joe powerlifter at 200lb probably totals 1100 and 1650 would be considered ‘elite’ by most standards.

[quote]hastalles wrote:
Kroc has mentioned a few times that he doesn’t think he has very good genetics.

Screw genetics and just SFW man.[/quote]

x1000. Never use genetics as an excuse.

PL watch current lifter rankings 198 raw, top 50 range from 1455-1700. With the top 13 being between 1600-1700

If that gives any indication.

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[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]hastalles wrote:
Kroc has mentioned a few times that he doesn’t think he has very good genetics.

Screw genetics and just SFW man.[/quote]

x1000. Never use genetics as an excuse.
[/quote]

Genetics is a pretty exciting field of study. You can do a ton to change your genetics through training and diet. Genetic memory is a pretty cool topic too.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
300 bench
400 squat
500 dead[/quote]

600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench.[/quote]

“what numbers could be achievable for almost any male”

No way does “any” male have the potential to hit your numbers. I have trained in a wide variety of gyms - PL (inc. WR holders, WSM competitors), high level BB (as in 3-4 IFBB pros, maybe 12-15 NPC level etc), college gym, various commercial gyms and a couple of very poor local shitty gyms. So the whole spectrum.

The numbers you mention are extremely rare, no way does every male have the potential to hit them.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]hastalles wrote:
Kroc has mentioned a few times that he doesn’t think he has very good genetics.

Screw genetics and just SFW man.[/quote]

x1000. Never use genetics as an excuse.
[/quote]

Genetics is a pretty exciting field of study. You can do a ton to change your genetics through training and diet. Genetic memory is a pretty cool topic too.[/quote]

Genetics are just part of it. What you have between your ears plays a huge part. How many guys have you seen with all kinds of potential, but no want to?

I’ve always thought what made Michael Jordan great, was his will. Maybe Krocs genetics arent the best (I’d take em) but his will is incredible.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
“what numbers could be achievable for almost any male”

No way does “any” male have the potential to hit your numbers. I have trained in a wide variety of gyms - PL (inc. WR holders, WSM competitors), high level BB (as in 3-4 IFBB pros, maybe 12-15 NPC level etc), college gym, various commercial gyms and a couple of very poor local shitty gyms. So the whole spectrum.

The numbers you mention are extremely rare, no way does every male have the potential to hit them.[/quote]

No doubt. But he also said something to the effect of “lifetime achievements given optimal training and diet”. Obviously most people you and I see in the local commercial gym or college gym probably isn’t meeting those criteria. I honestly do believe that any healthy male who focuses on powerlifting and does it right can get there eventually. And so can you!

[quote]greystoke wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]hastalles wrote:
Kroc has mentioned a few times that he doesn’t think he has very good genetics.

Screw genetics and just SFW man.[/quote]

x1000. Never use genetics as an excuse.
[/quote]

Genetics is a pretty exciting field of study. You can do a ton to change your genetics through training and diet. Genetic memory is a pretty cool topic too.[/quote]

Genetics are just part of it. What you have between your ears plays a huge part. How many guys have you seen with all kinds of potential, but no want to?

I’ve always thought what made Michael Jordan great, was his will. Maybe Krocs genetics arent the best (I’d take em) but his will is incredible.[/quote]

Good points, Greystroke.

Csulli, genetics is indeed a fascinating area of research and study.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
300 bench
400 squat
500 dead[/quote]

That’s way low for what I think the OP is asking. A person with average genetics/potential for powerlifting who is smart and diligent with his training can expect “lifetime” best lifts that are quite high I believe.

Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.[/quote]

wow, at 200lbs. according to RAW standards a 400, 300, 500 total of 1200 gets you class II at 220, which is where 200lbs falls into. drop down 2 lbs and it gets you a class II rating. that sounds rather average for competitive powerlifters.

your total of 1500-1700 gets you masters level at 220 and elite at 198 on the low end. elite on the high end. that is not average at all. that is well above average, elite actually. if the average man could reach that then it doesnt sound so elite to me. 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift sounds much more reasonable for an average person.

even using this link:

we see that the 3,4,5 total gets you advanced on all lifts. and they define advance as, “An individual who has trained multiple years.”

so IMO 3,4,5 is a much more reasonable expectation of average of not just for the average person (at 200lbs) but the average competitor.

[quote]hastalles wrote:
Kroc has mentioned a few times that he doesn’t think he has very good genetics.

Screw genetics and just SFW man.[/quote]

To be fair, how often do you hear anyone successful say that they think they have great genetics? Maybe I’m alone on this one, but I think people like the idea that they got where they are completely of their own accord. And while I’m not saying that Kroc got to be as big and strong as he is just because he won the genetic lottery( as he’s a notorious hard worker in training), I think the fact that he’s been so successful in two different disciplines, along with his brother’s success as a powerlifter, indicate that he probably has a bit more of a genetic advantage than he gives himself credit for. You know what I mean? This is, of course, not to discredit the guy at all, because I think he kicks ass AND he has an awesome exercise named after him.

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[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
300 bench
400 squat
500 dead[/quote]

That’s way low for what I think the OP is asking. A person with average genetics/potential for powerlifting who is smart and diligent with his training can expect “lifetime” best lifts that are quite high I believe.

Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.[/quote]

wow, at 200lbs. according to RAW standards a 400, 300, 500 total of 1200 gets you class II at 220, which is where 200lbs falls into. drop down 2 lbs and it gets you a class II rating. that sounds rather average for competitive powerlifters.

your total of 1500-1700 gets you masters level at 220 and elite at 198 on the low end. elite on the high end. that is not average at all. that is well above average, elite actually. if the average man could reach that then it doesnt sound so elite to me. 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift sounds much more reasonable for an average person.

even using this link:

we see that the 3,4,5 total gets you advanced on all lifts. and they define advance as, “An individual who has trained multiple years.”

so IMO 3,4,5 is a much more reasonable expectation of average of not just for the average person (at 200lbs) but the average competitor.[/quote]

You’re absolutely right, but I must say again, I believe the OP was asking a different question than the one you answered. You paint a clear picture of what an “average” powerlifter might expect to look like. What I think the OP was asking however, is what a person with average genetics could hope to achieve within his lifetime given “optimal training and nutrition”. And to that I say, yes, you can total elite if you really devote yourself to optimal training and nutrition for long enough without being a genetic anomaly.

[quote]asooneyeonig wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
300 bench
400 squat
500 dead[/quote]

That’s way low for what I think the OP is asking. A person with average genetics/potential for powerlifting who is smart and diligent with his training can expect “lifetime” best lifts that are quite high I believe.

Let’s say you’re like 200lbs or something. 600-700 dead, 500-600 squat, and over 400 bench. I think that barring injury and with enough work, those numbers are achievable no matter what.[/quote]

wow, at 200lbs. according to RAW standards a 400, 300, 500 total of 1200 gets you class II at 220, which is where 200lbs falls into. drop down 2 lbs and it gets you a class II rating. that sounds rather average for competitive powerlifters.

your total of 1500-1700 gets you masters level at 220 and elite at 198 on the low end. elite on the high end. that is not average at all. that is well above average, elite actually. if the average man could reach that then it doesnt sound so elite to me. 300 bench, 400 squat, and 500 deadlift sounds much more reasonable for an average person.

even using this link:

we see that the 3,4,5 total gets you advanced on all lifts. and they define advance as, “An individual who has trained multiple years.”

so IMO 3,4,5 is a much more reasonable expectation of average of not just for the average person (at 200lbs) but the average competitor.[/quote]

Yeah, but how many people are training and eating optimally for their entire life? The numbers are going to look very high because it’s not a very realistic scenario. 3, 4, 5 is absolutely a reasonable expectation of what the average competitor probably WILL achieve. However, it’s waaaay too low for what the average man COULD achieve if he dedicated his life to powerlifting and trained and ate optimally for his life.

Edit: Said almost the exact same thing as csulli lol

An average guy is not 200lbs, which is pretty big. More like 180lbs.

Even with diligence a BP well in excess of 2xBW (400lbs+), Sq nearly 3.5xBW and DL over 3.75xBW is not happening for the average drug free male lifting raw (based on 600-400-700)

To say you could take absolutely any kid age 18 and 10-20 years later he’ll hit those numbers is not credible imo.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
An average guy is not 200lbs, which is pretty big. More like 180lbs.

Even with diligence a BP well in excess of 2xBW (400lbs+), Sq nearly 3.5xBW and DL over 3.75xBW is not happening for the average drug free male lifting raw (based on 600-400-700)

To say you could take absolutely any kid age 18 and 20-30 years later he’ll hit those numbers is not credible imo.[/quote]

I take it you can’t deadlift between 6 and 7 or squat between 5 and 6 or bench over 400. That’s fine, because I can’t either, but if you don’t think you can achieve those numbers, I think you are selling yourself way short pal.

I have already passed the 400, 300, 500 that you mentioned, and I’m only 24 (didn’t start powerlifting till well into college even). Will I just stagnate for 10 years? I don’t really think so. If I can’t total between 1500 and 1700 in my lifetime, then what’s left to do lol?

Plus, I’m nothing compared to some of the people that post here. There’s dudes on this forum younger and lighter than me that would smoke my numbers! Maybe those guys have above average genetics, or maybe they just worked harder and smarter than me, I dunno. I would consider my potential quite average, and I think I will total elite one day.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
An average guy is not 200lbs, which is pretty big. More like 180lbs.

Even with diligence a BP well in excess of 2xBW (400lbs+), Sq nearly 3.5xBW and DL over 3.75xBW is not happening for the average drug free male lifting raw (based on 600-400-700)

To say you could take absolutely any kid age 18 and 20-30 years later he’ll hit those numbers is not credible imo.[/quote]

I take it you can’t deadlift between 6 and 7 or squat between 5 and 6 or bench over 400. That’s fine, because I can’t either, but if you don’t think you can achieve those numbers, I think you are selling yourself way short pal.

I have already passed the 400, 300, 500 that you mentioned, and I’m only 24 (didn’t start powerlifting till well into college even). Will I just stagnate for 10 years? I don’t really think so. If I can’t total between 1500 and 1700 in my lifetime, then what’s left to do lol?

Plus, I’m nothing compared to some of the people that post here. There’s dudes on this forum younger and lighter than me that would smoke my numbers! Maybe those guys have above average genetics, or maybe they just worked harder and smarter than me, I dunno. I would consider my potential quite average, and I think I will total elite one day.[/quote]

My opinions are not based on my own lifts or what I think my genetics are like.

They are based on lifting around probably 5,000 different individuals over the years and personally seeing the numbers you mentioned lifted by average size guys drug free maybe a couple of dozen times.

It’s all good and well saying zomg but this is using OPTIMAL NUTRITION dude! I’m just basing it on over 10 years in gyms of varying quality.

I get the whole don’t set limits stuff and that this is the internet but in real life a drug free 170-200lb guy doing 600-400-700 is in no way someone with average genetics.

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