T Nation

Post PCT Sex Drive is DEAD!!!


Ey all, havnt been on for a while, but iv'e got a major issue.

Im 23 and have just finished my first cycle 500mg sus250 shot mon/thurs for 11 weeks. 2 weeks after i started my pct of 40mcg nolva 2weeks 20mcg nolva 2 weeks. Along with a tribulus tab (for any slight advantage it may give).

Since i finished my PCT my sex drive has died, having trouble gaining an erection and general libido is non existant.

Before my cycle sex drive was all good. on cycle it was crazy and even during PCT it was going hard, couldn't of been happier.

Anyways has this happened to anyone? what should i do?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers in advance


Estrogen rebound... get some adex and [front load] take 1mg day 1, .5mg EOD for 3 days then cruise on 0.5 mg/week.

I have seen this before. You should be on adex during PCT and cruise after for a while as above. I strongly recommend adex all through a cycle. This is not common practice, but might be optimal practice. When doing gear, unmanaged estrogen levels are really uncontrolled estrogen levels.

Now you know what estrogen levels can do. With adex, you should be able to recover quite quickly.

Might be a good time to feel around your nipples.


Ive just finished a havoc cycle (20/30/40/40) and am currently in my second week of 40/40/20/20 nolva and some mid dose TRIBEX as a little bonus. Libido high pre and during cycle and about 4-5 days into pct has crashed massively and has not recovered.

Is this normal?


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


Although I do agree with bushy, I have seen this in the past from a friend. He was actually in a worse case than yourself, but he had a much more complex cycle.

He did use either Adex or Letro one of the two I dont remember, but once he had his body back in a "homeostasis" level his drive came back.

I have used sust in the past and know several people in the past who've done a cycle very similar to what you have here and I am just in disbelief that you are rebounding this hard. Typically, 500mg test is usually a pretty safe bet.

Out of mere curiosity, have you ever used any PH or anything of that nature before this cycle?



No havn't used anything pre-this cycle.

I have had no symtoms of gyno during or post cycle, and my strength has not diminished post cycle, though i have lost a few kg's (put alot of it down to water retention). I copped the acne pretty bad around weeks 9-13 of cycle but it has been gone for a couple of weeks now.

The only issue with running some a-dex etc is i'll have to talk to my source, takes 2 weeks at very best to come in.

Will i get over this naturally? if so how long may i be looking at?

I may have to go see the doc ey


I agree with the AI usage.

Estrogen is too high, you will get over it naturally...eventually...

But that could take a long time, and high estrogen is a very serious problem for men.

Usually if its your first ever cycle of anything, prohormones included.

Your libido and sex drive crash hard in the PCT.

Its kind of a right of passage thing. But you generally get over it within a week.

If your having issues after the PCT then its a more serious issue.

Blood work is the next step, but I would go ahead and order the letro or adex, as its almost certain that it is a high e level.


Or call it a "rite of doing it the wrong way."

Putting aside how the cycle was done and the PCT was done:

Resume the Nolvadex. How many days have you been off?

If for example it's been two weeks, consider your levels mostly gone and restart with 4 divided doses across the day of 40 mg each (total of 160 mg) or another method giving 160 mg across the day, and then continue with 20 mg/day till you are doing fine.

Or if only week off, then restart with about 80 or 100 mg.

If somewhere inbetween, somewhere inbetween.

Test your estrogen.

See if you can get some HCG quickly -- if it turns out from the following that there is no current need for it then fine, save it for later.

If after a few days back on the Nolvadex you still believe T levels must be low, and you have an AI and will be monitoring your estrogen, you can start HCG at a low dose such as 100 IU every other day. Don't do the HCG if you won't be doing this, as it will be substantially suppressive of your recovery if it is allowed to increase estrogen. Keep the estrogen low normal or do not use the HCG. Don't use typical (higher) HCG dosages either.

Your problems are the result of:

1) A cycle length that fairly often yields this outcome, when cycle lengths such as 8 weeks just about never do when handled properly

2) Insufficient length of time of PCT, both because you may have been counting weeks in which you were still suppressed from previous injections and so were not really post-cycle, except from the standpoint that you weren't having to inject; and too short because discontinued before natural T was recovered

and possibly

3) Substantial loss of testicular function due to cycle length and no use of HCG during.

This is not inevitable to steroid cycles: it is a result of particular mistakes. The good news is full recovery is ordinarily possible.


Certainly not inevitable, but an incredibly common mistake to the new user.

Ive done it before, I would think most experienced users have messed up atleast once.

When this happened to me I just stretched my PCT to almost 8 weeks.

Cost me an extra 50 bucks in nolva, but I was no worse for wear.


Agreed; your post points out that I really should clarify that the great majority of the time it can be simpler than I described above and done just as you stated.

Namely, simply running a SERM long enough.

The other points I added are further optimizations when done exactly the way stated (doing it differently though supposedly similarly can instead make things worse) but in fact are not usually necessary for good outcome.


Ey Bill do you mind if i pm you a few question's regarding pct and future cycle? Read alot of your post's, you obviously know your shit.


Sure, no problem.



A SERM will create normal or higher levels of LH and FSH, typically higher. This will allow the testes to physically recover. But this does not address the transition to normal stimulation of the pituitary by the hypothalamus. The SERM must be tapered off of course. The levels of estrogen need to be low-normal for the resumption of GnRH. This is where the problem is.

I think that things will always go better when E2 levels are lower, in the lower 20's [pg/ml <54]. This is why I want guys to land on lower E2 levels during PCT, then take 0.5 mg/ml per week to support this transition and to avoid an HPTA repressive estrogen rebound.

SERMs are HPTA repressive, AIs are not. It is better to transition onto an AI before getting natural than from a SERM.

The amount of adex used needs to match the serum testosterone levels. More correctly, the level of bio-available testosterone as I assume that SHBG bound T cannot aromatize to E.

Adex should be introduced as one tapers off of T then the adex needs to be reduced to as ones T levels drop towards normal levels. We do know that for guys who are natural and needing E levels reduced, a pre-TRT condition, that adex0.5mg/week produces good results. A guy who is estrogen rebounding after PCT with T levels that are repressed resembles the situation of older guys with lower T and elevated E who do well on low does adex.

When one has symptoms of elevated E, and when elevated E levels are probable [after a cycle or non-ideal PCT], then it does not make much sense to do an E2 lab as a first action. The lab will show levels that are above optimal, or elevated [in the 30's pg/ml], and perhaps even high. E levels do not need to be high to kill libido when combined with lower levels of T. I suggest that one take a trial adex dose. One can then expect to feel significant improvements in libido.

Libido seems to be the fastest responder and is thus an ideal guide to dosing. After 3 weeks on that, one can then, if desired, get a serum E2 test. Now - what to do with that number? If one accepts the rule of thumb from TRT - that E2=22pg/ml is ideal then one needs to adjust the adex dose. Dose response is quite linear.

The new dose is the old dose scaled by the current E2 level divided by 22pg/ml. This really works well in TRT settings. In TRT, things are quite steady state. With a transition out of PCT things are not steady state. That makes fine level dose adjustment of adex a bit problematic.

Back on track - one can establish an adex dose, and then the first lab, if done, can drive a corrected dose instead of simply producing an E2 level that cannot really lead to a very good dosing decision. Estimated adex doses can be scaled by body weight vs a 160 pound reference. So a 240 pound guy might be better off with a PCT exit dose of .75mg/week instead of 0.5mg/week.

For TRT, the first dose approximation can also be scaled up if there is a large %BF - not something that is expected in this forum. I have had really good results with my TRT consults using this first dose and lab driven linear dose change calculations, and with first dose scaling by BW [and BF].

The only hiccup is when a guy is an adex over-responder and need to then take 1/4th or 1/8th of the expected doses.

These are then going through an estrogen crash with the expected symptoms. This cannot be avoided and does imply that front loading adex when one has never used adex before can have a negative outcome for a few.

It is well known that SERMs increase estrogen levels and that is the main reason to taper off of SERMs. In some cases the SERM taper is not enough to avoid problems.

hCG dosing needs to be discussed, as some of the doses discussed on the WWW, and here on T-Nation in the past have been too high. This can down regulate LH receptors which could make the transition off of PCT go bad. 250iu hCG SC EOD is known to typically be a replacement dose for ones normal LH induced testicular activity.

One might then expect that a low dose such as that would not drive testicular estrogen production rates higher than ones natural baseline testicular estrogen production. This does assume that for a given baseline level of testosterone production, that estrogen production is the same for stimulation of the testes by LH+FSH or hCG.

And as you suggest, guys need to be aware that high doses of hCG will create higher levels of T-->E aromatization in the testes.

When I suggest that the PCT exit level of adex be continued for an indeterminate amount of time then tapered to zero... I do not know how long that should be. Perhaps 4-5 weeks. I expect that many will soon feel that they are ok and will be done with it.


What you say is "must" that was advocating something different is contradicted by a decade-plus of practical experience with a great number of cases. Not "must."

The methods I described work well and with high reliability: the simpler method is not the absolute best but is generally good, and so far as I know the more-detailed method provided is the best.

By high reliability I mean that not a single consult I ever did failed, where the person had had normal testosterone in the at-all recent past. That is to say, a 100% satisfaction and success rate. So while perhaps some source that has done well with another method says that differently "must" be done, well, no.


The only reference that I made to "must" was in regard to tapering off of SERMs. Were you referring to something else?

When there is a PCT failure, as in this thread, I feel that proper use of an AI would prevent these rebound and libido problems.


That was the only literal use. That method certainly isn't a must.

Aside from that being a practical fact, with all the successes that have occurred without doing so, also it should not be surprising. After all with the long half-life there's a natural slow reduction of levels.

While not the word "must," there was a statement "needs" with regard to estrogen level and higher LH and FSH. But with a SERM in fact estrogen doesn't need to be driven down to low normal to have increased LH and FSH.

I may have misread: it seemed to me that the message was that one must do something other than simply take a SERM (preferably with proper frontload) at the generally-accepted dosages until natural T is well restored. But there are so many success cases where exactly that was done.



While we are on the topic of PCT, I am 6 weeks off a 5-week cycle of T-Bol (40mg/day). Unfortunately, I slacked and didn't do a PCT. Now I kind of feel like crap ie low energy, moody, low sex drive. Is it too late to use some clomid or nolva for 2-3 weeks to get me up and running. I have no access to HCG or arimidex. Or, would i be better served since it has already been 6 weeks not doing anything and using something like REZ-V? Thanks, v


Not too late: it's worth trying and will probably succeed.


To avoid creating a new thread I am going to post in this one.
The title pretty much sums up whats happened.
I did a 13 week cycle of tren and test, I know 13 weeks of tren is a bad idea.
it looked like this:

Wk 1-7 Tri-Test 600mg/wk
Wk 1-7 Tri Tren 600mg/wk
Wk 3-7 Masteron prop 300mg/wk
Wk 7-13 Test Prop 350mg/wk
Wk 7-13 Tren Ace 350mg/wk
Wk 7-13 Winstrol 350mg/wk
Adex (pharm grade) was used throughout at .5mg EOD.
Started PCT 4 days after test prop jab, PCT was clomid 100/50/50 and nolva 20/20/20/20.

It is now the 5th week and I have continued using the nolva as there is no sign of recovery.
Lactation has also occured but in small amounts, little to none gyno too but libido is DEAD. No sex drive at all and difficult to get erection.
I have had blood work done to test for prolactin, estradiol, LH, FSH, Testosterone but these results will take at least 10 days to get back. The Doc has also reffered me to an endocrinologist but yet again this will take a couple of weeks.

What should I do? I have read that high prolactin levels can be induced by high estrogen so maybe I need to up the dose of the nolva?
I have adex and hCG on hand, cannot get any caber unfortunately.
Do you guys think I should just wait for the results and appointment or do something now?