T Nation

Post PCT Low Energy and Motivation


#1

Am Recovering from a long cycle of test/ deca/ dbol.
20 week long cycle. For reasons stated in my last post I did this cycle.
Nevertheless, I have recovered test levels and other sex hormones about one month ago.
No hcg used only clomid and tamoxafin.
Today it is 7 1/2 months post cycle.

The concern I have is I am very unmotivated at times ( almost everyday in the afternoon) I feel as if i have nothing to run on( no energy) and no excitement to do anything.
Is this normal after such a long cycle...?
This started at the 6 month mark..post cycle..... Around the time the hormones started to recover.
Libido is still very low and erections have improved but could be stronger.....

Current bloods:
total test:549
free T: 21.2
T4: 1.31
DHEA sulfate: 413.9
LH: 7.7
FSH: 6.4
Estradiol: 34.8
Progesterone: 1.0
SHBG: 23.8

I have read that prolonged sexual disfunction is possible after heavy long term Nandralone use.
Is it common that the DECA side can continue even after test levels are recovered.?
Please experienced only......
I am not currently on cycle.. So dont respond with " ADD MORE TEST"
Thanks for any input....!


#2

Anyone ever experience long term fatigue AFTER pct...?


#3

Mods.....
Please join in with helpful info if available....
Thanks


#4

Bump for any input....


#5

Mods....
J-JAck or Shugart....
Do you guys have any input that may assist in this post..?


#6

I went though the same thing. I was still able to get down and do what I had to do. But I had to force myself to do it. It sucked. I think it's natural. I would compare it to taking a red bull. you were pumped and primed for the cycle and then the crash. You will recover in time I'm guessing


#7

Long cycle, estrogenic compounds present, especially meylated estrogens, deca...

No one is commenting because this is 100% to be expected.

Deca lingers in its surpression, and chemically lingers as well for a completely unacceptable amount of time. No one uses deca anymore, its what they used before they had better options.

In terms of pure muscle tissue growth, deca is simply not the strongest drug available. Combine that with prolactin sides while on, as is likely part of your case here, and you simply have a recipe for suppression.

Its nice to see some HPTA recovery, I would add an AI in not an SERM, and drop the SERM completely. You may need to address prolactin now if you did not have prolactin support on cycle, it is impossible to tell, but if you had prolactin support on cycle you will simply continue dosages but lower, if you did not then you will need to research prolactin and deca.


#8

Long cycle, estrogenic compounds present, especially meylated estrogens, deca...

No one is commenting because this is 100% to be expected.

Deca lingers in its surpression, and chemically lingers as well for a completely unacceptable amount of time. No one uses deca anymore, its what they used before they had better options.

In terms of pure muscle tissue growth, deca is simply not the strongest drug available. Combine that with prolactin sides while on, as is likely part of your case here, and you simply have a recipe for suppression.

Its nice to see some HPTA recovery, I would add an AI in not an SERM, and drop the SERM completely. You may need to address prolactin now if you did not have prolactin support on cycle, it is impossible to tell, but if you had prolactin support on cycle you will simply continue dosages but lower, if you did not then you will need to research prolactin and deca.


#9

Long cycle, estrogenic compounds present, especially meylated estrogens, deca...

No one is commenting because this is 100% to be expected.

Deca lingers in its surpression, and chemically lingers as well for a completely unacceptable amount of time. No one uses deca anymore, its what they used before they had better options.

In terms of pure muscle tissue growth, deca is simply not the strongest drug available. Combine that with prolactin sides while on, as is likely part of your case here, and you simply have a recipe for suppression.

Its nice to see some HPTA recovery, I would add an AI in not an SERM, and drop the SERM completely. You may need to address prolactin now if you did not have prolactin support on cycle, it is impossible to tell, but if you had prolactin support on cycle you will simply continue dosages but lower, if you did not then you will need to research prolactin and deca.


#10

Thanks for the Responses.....
Remember, I am now nearly 8 months post cycle...
It seems as if there no pattern to the fatigue timing......mid morning..... late afternoon.....Whenever the heck it wants...!
Also, When fatigued, I eat anything ( chicken, rice, sweets, sandwich ....ect) I imediatly feel far superior than I did....?

Additionally, I posted on another posting here on T-Nation...... Regarding " DECA" permanently altering gene expression....
Deca specifically " DECA"....
I have very detailed inquired with DR. Michael Scally regarding this issue.... ( he states this is completly inaccurate).
Do you have any references that support this loose claim being stated around the web...?
Thanks guys......
I am posting this recovery of mine, because I know how I felt while in the worst time of my recovery........ Each day I sign on and see yet another guy posting in fear about his disaster after a poor planned cycle....... I want them to see and hear all the details they can to help releive some of thier fears...... and to staighten out the irresponsible cycling...!
Thanks.....


#11

The basis for "prolonged sexual disfunction" after a Nandralone cycle can be attributed to the following:

The arcuate nucleus joining the hypothalamus and pituitary is lined with a series of neurons that are dopaminergic. They secrete dopamine. Dopamine is required in this region to suppress prolactin among other protein hormones. Prolactin at a break through level leads to a feeling of satis that is experienced after orgasm and it's dissipation is correlated with the refractory period seen between successful coital activity. These neurons have progesterone receptors.

Nandrolones, trenbolones and their metabolites bind these progesterone receptors leading to decreased dopamine secretion. This is localized to the hypothalamus/pituitary region and does not significantly affect overall blood levels of prolactin. This is why prolactin levels are not always seen to rise in 19 nor andros sexual dysfunction. The way to resolve the problem is to wait until the nandrolone/trenbolone and metabolites dissipate and or use a D2 agonist temporarily until those nandrolone/metabolite levels resolve.

This statement was given to me regarding the lengthy disfunction........
Does anyone have any further knowledge of this issue?


#12

I can not speak specifically on Deca or any androgen altering gene expression permanently but I have experienced a similar effects from longer term, estrogen and prolactin controlled, tren usage. In combination with the myoplasia from elevating GH levels, a sufficiently strong androgen certainly can be responsible for permanent alterations in the body.

I do not recommend Deca usage, Tren is a far superior androgen/anabolic for a lower incidence of side effects.

Uncontrolled estrogenic levels is the primary cause of failure with progestin based compounds, Deca/tren.


#13

Westclock,
I have found in the past an article that did mention Tren altering genes.....
Strange as it was, When my cycle ended.....My E2 levels were un registered below testable limits..... as well, progesterone was so low it was regestering at .01.....

My recovery has diffinitly happened and still coming...... I just been uneasy about the slow recovery of proper erections and libido......
Many have reported 1 year plus for full recovery.....
Deca gets a thumbs down...:frowning:


#14

Bump for more input.
Thanks guys


#15

Age? If you are a younger fellow your LH is high for your age. Need hcg.


#16

I'm 40,
But I'm in recovery from deca cycle while bloods were done....
These are not baselines....
Thank man


#17

bump


#18

Anyone else know anything about the above..?
Prolonged disfunction with recovered test levels..?
Please input if knowledgable.....


#19

Labs vary on reference tables can you post your labs "normal" range for your numbers? It's difficult if we don't have that range.

Is this Labcorp or Quest? Are you a member of lef.org

Perhaps you should give the hcg a chance. You don't know it may help reboot things. Clomid can affect you in a moody feminine way.