T Nation

Post PCT Crash


#1

Hello there!

I'm new on the forum, but I'm posting here to get some hope for my situation (I hope.)

Long story short: I screwed up my PCT bad!
Now I'm feeling the sides of it. What the heck do i do?
I've zero libido and i can pretty much not get it up without cialis (Even then, it's hard sometimes.)

Long version:

I've been going on and off cycles every now and then for about 2-3 years. Usually I would average one cycle per year. (Shorter ones, about 1-2 months usually.) But last year i wanted to get big. Said and done I got on to a bit of a heavier cycle. (Note that i've never had any serious rebound from the earlier cycles. Usually about 25 mg Dbol ED and 250 mg of test cypionate EW and 20mg ish Winistrol ED)

This time however I was on:

500 mg Test Cypionate EW
50 mg Dbol ED
50 mg Anavar ED
Towards the end i changed down the anavar to 30 mg and eventually replaced it with 25 mg of winistrol (Ran out of anavar)

Right at the end of the course i ran HCG only for a few weeks. That's all for my PCT...
Yes, stupid I know... but it's done now. It can only be ascribed to a lack of knowledge at the time and improper tutoring from people i never should have listened to.

All was however fine for a few months afterwards (Quit in august) untill december when something strange happened. I woke up one day and i simply had no sex drive whatsoever. I waited it out untill march where i tried some susta and dbol for about a month (The susta gave me a small pityful amount of sex drive, but not much.) After quitting it was ofcourse bad again, if not worse. I can't really explain how stupid i feel over this. However, what is done is done.(sadly.)

I've now waited for almost two months afterwards and i've gone to the doc to get some blood work done. All i got for that was a note home saying that "My levels looked allright." The problem still persists though. I don't think they checked estrogen levels.

What comes to my mind is estrogen rebound. I tried some HCG for a while at 500/e3D
wich didn't do much really. My balls feel fairly big and i don't feel horribly fatigued or anything (Granted i've always had a bit of fatigue so maybe i just don't feel that so hard...)

Working out is allright. I don't feel horrible when working out or anything. Nothing amazing but not horrible either.

My question is: Is there anything to be done or am i basically screwed? I read an earlier(old) post from a 23(same age as me!) yr old guy who had done something similar but i felt i wanted some up to date feedback.

All i got at the moment is 1 mg tabs of Arimidex and a lot of HcG. Can probably get nolva too if i put some effort into it. (Clomid might be harder.)

Is there any hope of speeding up my return to form? (Oh, and this will probably be my last AAS cycle, I don't feel that i know enough to continiue playing with things like these.)

Hope i get some answers, slightly messed up in the head at the moment.


#2

Where did you get the idea that HCG would help with estrogen problems? This is just.....erroneous....

You're right about that


You need to get a copy of your bloodwork. Most docs look at bloodwork and determine you aren't dead, so therefore the results are "fine" or "normal". Its your bloodwork, so go get a copy of it and retain.

Your LH/FSH is probably supressed (which is why you take PCT to get them going again). You almost certainly need a SERM.

Bloodwork you care about:
-LH
-FSH
-Testosterone (obviously)
-E2 (estradiol)
-Prolactin

Post these and allow people to help you without the aid of a magic 8 ball.


#3

Yeah, about the HcG use... it was a stupid idea that I got from some really bad mentoring. But I'm not putting the fault only there. I should have read more and done my homework. Cross checked everything. My own damn fault. That's what you get for being stupid i guess. I won't shift blame.

Will get the bloodwork answers asap. Called the hospital today but they said it would take 10 days(!) to get me the bloodwork sheet copies! I will try to find a private clinic asap to do a new bloodwork too. Maybe it's faster, it's worth paying for if i can get better service and faster.

Thanks for the answer.


#4

Can't you just go to the clinic and get them to pull the file and make you a copy on the spot?


#5

did you explain to the doctor that you used AAS without doing a proper PCT? I would really recommend that you do this, because he might give you a test for other things. sounds to me like an estrogen rebound. I have heard cases like yours and people tend to recommend you to do a proper pct of clomid and nolva or something like that. but in your casse (libido crash for such a long time) I would strongly recommend that you explain everything to your doctor.

also as far as i know using HCG for PCT is the stupidest thing ever. Hcg = increased estrogen and it will always bring u back to square one. Usually hcg is done during cycle, every 3-4 days to avoid shrinkage or after the last injection at a high dose for about 2 weeks or so, and before a nolvadex/clomid pct, to wake up the nuts.

anyway this is my knowledge and I really REALLY think you should explain your doctor every single detail so he can help you.


#6

For some reason they would not give me the sheets at once. Swedish health care is balls. They said the doctor that took my case was not in at the moment and wouldn't be for ten days and as such they could not help me until then to get the bloodwork sheet... Have contacted a private clinic to see if they can help me faster.

I did tell the doctor everything. (Or well... nurse...) To be fair i think she was about as knowledgeable about the stuff as I am... if even less. Kind of felt as she didn't give a crap. As long as the numbers added up.


#7

haha U r swedish? I am moving there next year for a year (to stockholm). I hate your countries law for AAS. Its even more strict than america's law. (atleast in america they don't do such a thing as muscle profiling)

no explain yor situation to a DOCTOR! Nurses don't have that extensive knowledge that doctors do,their knowledge is quite basic.I know this becausse I have so many friends who are nurses. Do you have TRT doctors in sweden? if so they are specialists in this field and if no one else is able to help, they are!


#8

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#9

Working on getting those bloodworks asap. Sluggish system it's also easter holidays so that makes it even worse. Very up and down with the mood at the moment. One moment panic and crying, one moment buff. Working out is still good though. Feel better a while after working out too.

Sweden is a shitty place to be living at the moment. That's for sure. The muscle profiling is just the top of an iceberg i'm afraid.

A question:

Since i went of at the end-ish of march (D-bol and Susta) should I do a PCT now regardless? It's five weeks plus after the last shot but yeah... just wondering.

Will a PCT hurt me? I mean, can it make matters worse at the moment? I'm guessing i should get a hold of Nolva and clomid asap. What more can i do on my own while i wait for the bloodwork. Is there anything?

Thanks for all the answers so far.


#10

well the good news is starting pct this long after your last injection means that your blood levels of active steroid are definitely less than 10mg. Some people tend to start pct quite early when their blood levels are still high and at those levels, clomid is not effective.

The pct i would recommend is a pct of nolva and clomid, its a pct for heavy and long cycles, so I am gonna be honest the amounts I am telling u might be abit to high, so if anyone thinks they are too high please recommend an adjusted dose.

Your pct will be consisted of clomid and nolvadex. clomid helps restart the natural test production in your body. It increases activity in the hypothalamus-pituary-gonadol axis by stimulating the release of more gondotropin from the pituarity gland which causes a higher level of LH and FSH which signals the testicles which then u will manufacture more test and sperm. it is also a mild anti estrogen but not as strong as nolvadex, which is why I'd say you should go for a clomid/nolva pct.

so do as follow (once again some more experience people may correct me on doses, but this is what normaly should be done for a heavy cycle):

Day 1 - Clomid 200mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
Following 10 days - Clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg

anyway, good luck. Hope this PCT worksout for you (warning: I have known clomid to cause depression for many people, so it is better to see if u are still depressed, have libido probelms after your pct rather than during PCT)

now I have a few questions from u:

1- I have already managed to find a reliable source for my steroids in sweden. What will happen if they find out that you possess steroids for "personal" use? is it straight to prison? a warning? or a penalty?

2- how can you even be depressed in sweden? your girls are stunning, 5 days I was there about a month ago and I wanted to hump everything that moved lol.


#11

I think I am already at a horrible state of depression as it is. The hormones are running amok already. But i will be close to a "Babysitter" so to speak under this period when i would take clomid. I guess... it wouldn't hurt to take a PCT at this moment, yes?

Anyhow:

1 - They will most likely take all your gear, including the PCT stuff. Depending on the amount you own the punishment varies. If it is deemed a small amount you will be fined a measly 1500 ish SEK and that'll be it.
If it is deemed to be a higher enough amount though, you might be in more serious trouble. I'm not currently sure about the amounts required for what kind of punishment. It's a bit iffy. Steroids are handled as "Narcotics" in Sweden though, thus the punishment can be fairly severe.(By Swedish standards) Also, if you have a job as a security guard or anything of the likes, you can say goodbye to that.

2 - True! But imagine not being able to hump them and you can get where the depression stems from! On a more serious note, we pay the worlds highest taxes but get little back and things just don't work as they should. Healthcare is a mess, schools are meh etc. Also, don't forget almost no sunlight during the winter in the northern part of the country! Lately we have also had disturbing developments like IPRED and FRA, allowing the state to monitor internet traffic in the country and surveying it's citizens. But enough about that...


#12

I dont recommend clomid to any male. Shitty drug. It's not going to do anything nolvadex wont do.


#13

dude chillax :slightly_smiling: its not the end of the world yet. I don't even know u and u r already giving me so much negative energy, then how would u expect to get girls with that atttude? this is gonna go abit off topic but I am try to share my life experiences.

Be more positive/happy/ chilled out and you'll always manage to get girls. on the other hand be negative, self concious, and seem desperate and girls can feel that and would get away from u.

I had so much fun in those 5 days in sweden. Although to be fair I am italian so I guess we looked quite alien there and obviously got more attention. girls (infact people) in general were really friendly and nice.

FYI I lived in st petersburg (russia) for 2 years. st petersburg is at the same level with stockholm and also gets dark half the year. But I never remember having issues or letting it get to me. Also in russia people are not that friendly always, and there are so many different problems in russia that there is not in sweden or europe. so i think its all in your head.

I know about ur high taxes (still alot lower than norway), but u don't have much poverty in sweden, and ur people are some of the most educated I have ever seen, simply because you don't have to pay for your univrsity tuition fees for like 5 years if i recall correctly.

anyway all I am trying to say is:

1- do your pct , hope it works for u
2- be more positive
3- learn to look at the bright side of the stuff

thanks for the info about steroid laws in sweden aswell. I am still worried though .... I hope I don't get arrested next year


#14

is it based on personal experience or a scientific journal or something? the reason I am asking, there seem to be another school of thought that nolvadex only pct is not enough.


#15

Thanks for the pointer's. As for the girls, it's hard to bone anything when you've got no libido. That's all I was refering to. Got a wonderful girl so no problem there. Just want to get back on track with my life asap.

Some things good, some things bad i guess.


#16

ok sounds good. Goodluck with the PCT, yeah do it. It has no harm and it may sort u out. let us know about ur results.


#17

Many persons' experience. Emotional side effects and blurry vision are not worth it.


#18

What would you reccomend instead then?


#19

I recommended nolvadex/clomid ........but bonez is saying just take nolvadex. If you are gonna take only nolvadex do like this:

Day 1 - 100mg
Following 10 days - 60mg
Following 10 days - 40mg


#20

i'd also say have a look at "androbolix" by biorythm , it contains tribulus and 6 oxo. It's a natural product and it may have some benefits if you add it to your stack with nolvadex.