T Nation

Post-Lab Work Adjustments


#1

Hey guys - After years of silently roaming these forums, it's time to make a post of my own. So thanks in advance for any advice you can give!

I have been on TRT from my general PCP doc for about 2 years after displaying low T - he prescribed 200mg/wk of Test Cyp. My libido eventually crashed and I had the doc check my E2 (estradiol) levels which came out to about 55 pg/ml. Being a general PCP and, according to the fact that the test's upper end of the range was supposedly 60 pg/ml, he said this was fine. Obviously it wasn't, so I got some liquidex (arimidex) and went with .2mg EOD. Since then, my E2 levels have been in the 20's. Good stuff.

Fast forward to a few months ago, I decided to do my first full cycle. Following the newbie guide on this forum, I planned a cycle as follows:

500 mg/wk (two shots of 250) of Test E (all shots done Mon/Thurs night)
200 mg/wk (two shots of 100) of Tren E
I maintained my dose of .2mg/EOD of arimidex (actually 3x/week)

Initially, I saw a jump in weight (~10-12 lbs), but increases quickly subsided. After a 4 weeks and much skepticism of bunk gear, I added back in the 200 mg/wk Test Cyp from my doc. It seemed to help a bit, but I was still unimpressed by what I was seeing in terms of strength and size.

I thus decided at the 7 week mark (last week) to get some blood work done to see if my gear was legit (my DD on the source indicated it was, but I was still questioning). Blood work was done on the morning before my bi-weekly shot (Monday). I used a private lab that I have seen numerous recommendations for and got the following:

Total test LC/MS: 2960.2 ng/dl (range 348.0-1197.0)
Free Testosterone(Direct) >50.0 (range 8.7-25.1 pg/mL)
LH/FSH were out of sight low (of course)
Estradiol: 102.2 (range 7.6-42.6 pg/mL)

Obviously 102 is pretty crazy high for E2 in a male and likely explains why my results on this cycle are not exactly blowing my skirt up.

My question is - I'm increasing my liquidex dosage to .25mg/ED (just over doubling my dose), although based on above I wonder if my particular situation might require a larger dosage.

How do you think I should adjust my arimidex dosage?

Thanks much for the advice!

And, in case you are wondering, here's my stats:
32 Y/O male
5'11
265 lbs
lifted weights for 17 years
last DEXA got me at 10% bodyfat (although I have certainly gained fat since then - right now, I'm probably more like 15%, I expect to take some flak for this).


#2

As a couple of side notes:

I plan to go back to my regular TRT dose post cycle. I think I recall seeing that called “blast and cruise” somewhere here.

I have seen some decent strength gains (finally). Been spinning my wheels for a while and was finally able to hit PR’s on all lifts (raw) SQ: 600, BP: 450, DL: 585.

I’m not currently planning to run any other PCT such as SERMs (frankly, my testicles are little more than hood ornaments at this point and its fine with me and my wife). I have looked at other posts, but I haven’t noticed anything specific like this out there yet.


#3

Anastrozole is a competitive drug with FT at aromatase reaction sites.
More T means more anastrozole to maintain same E2.
To maintain proper ratio, T levels need to be stead and you need to inject at least twice a week.
Take anastrozole at time of injections, anastrozole levels will peak and sag with T levels/
Try 2mg anastrozole with each injection or one with each injection and one next day. [Edit: This corrected in a later post below]

Do TT and FT labs detect Tren?

In the TRT forum, please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • protocol for injections

As part of your TRT you need these labs every 6 months:
TT
FT
E2
CBC
hematocrit -this can be a real problem for some TRT guys and then much worse on gear
AST/ALT
PSA if 40+
TSH, fT3, fT4 would be a good idea

Any sign of gyno from E2 or Tren?


#4

[quote]KSman wrote:
Anastrozole is a competitive drug with FT at aromatase reaction sites.
More T means more anastrozole to maintain same E2.
To maintain proper ratio, T levels need to be stead and you need to inject at least twice a week.
Take anastrozole at time of injections, anastrozole levels will peak and sag with T levels/
Try 2mg anastrozole with each injection or one with each injection and one next day.

Do TT and FT labs detect Tren?

In the TRT forum, please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • protocol for injections

As part of your TRT you need these labs every 6 months:
TT
FT
E2
CBC
hematocrit -this can be a real problem for some TRT guys and then much worse on gear
AST/ALT
PSA if 40+
TSH, fT3, fT4 would be a good idea

Any sign of gyno from E2 or Tren?
[/quote]

Thanks for the quick reply! I went and read those posts - thanks for taking the time to write those up.

I do regularly get labs done every 6 months, although for some reason I haven’t a lipid profile in a while (I guess I need to remind them).

I was blown away when I saw that my hematocrit was about what it usually is:
Hematocrit 49.6 (range 37.5-51.0 %)
Here’s the others:

AST (SGOT) 36 (range 0-40 IU/L)
ALT (SGPT) 62 HIGH (range 0-44 IU/L)

My panel didn’t include any thyroid hormones; I’ll look into the other tests they offer for next time. The only other things that were “out of range” were:

Potassium, Serum 5.3 HIGH (range 3.5-5.2 mmol/L)
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 31 LOW (range 39-117 IU/L)
Creatinine, Serum 1.47 HIGH (range 0.76-1.27 mg/dL) - this one has been consistently high, probably going to have to talk with doc about that one. I like having kidneys.

As far as whether or not TT and FT labs detecting Tren - that’s a good question. I don’t think so. From a quick google scholar search, I’ve seen the cross-reactivity of trenbolone in the testosterone ELISA around 1% (actually going both ways - in a trenbolone ELISA, cross reactivity with testosterone was 0.5%). These were for fish and bovine models, so take that with a grain of salt. Honestly, I don’t know what the cross reactivity of the assay used in my case, but from the other assays, I’d like to guess that it is low.

Gyno - I haven’t noticed any particular puffiness/swelling/tenderness in the nips. The tissue I have around there seems to be about what it has been (surprisingly - maybe I just haven’t noticed).

Just to make sure I read correctly - I should take 2mg (up from my old dose of 0.2mg) at time of injection? That would be 4mg per week, which seems quite high. Is that correct? Thanks so much for the help!


#5

4mg would seems high based on your bloods.

Let’s say your target E2 is about 25. Adex being competitive drug you would divide your current E2 by the target then multiply that number by your current Adex dose.

(102/25).2 = roughly .8mg

try .8mg as your new EoD dose


#6

Thanks guys! I’m increasing my dose, certainly more than I had originally planned. I wish I had gotten blood work done sooner, but you live and learn I guess. Hopefully 0.8mg EOD will be enough, I will try that out and adjust from there.


#7

With target of E2=22pg/ml

New dose is old dose * 102.2/22 = .2 EOD * 4.56 = 0.93 mg EOD or 3.25mg /week
If using a liquid, you can fine tune this.

You can take 1.5mg at time of your two injections for 3mg/week or 1mg EOD for 3.5 mg/week

I got confused with your new suggested AI dose VS the one for that lab result.