T Nation

Possible TRT at 23?


#1

I will try to make this short. I keep getting gyno and I don't know what to do. I have taken prohormones in the past and gotten gyno from it however I have taken prescription Tamoxifen Citrate for the issue and it disappeared entirely. The last time I took a prohormone I did a PCT of Tamoxifen for a month at 40/40/20/20 and I had no gyno.

Now after a year of no prohormone usage I found a small lump on gyno in my chest and went back to the DR and got another prescription for Tamoxifen. This is my 3rd or 4th time using the drug and I guess I am wonder why I got gyno and what I can do to prevent it or if i should be worried about some sort of hormonal imbalance or something that I should get blood work for.

Idk if i stated this in other threads but I have one kidney and one adrenal gland (don't know if that could have anything to do with it lol I tend to be tired a lot and generally lack energy which is why i mention it). I am 23yrs and have gotten my test done twice when i was 20 and 21. The results were normal..dont know the range or #'s. The 2nd test was actually high b/c i was on a cycle at the time.

If it helps I had to take a yr off due to a shoulder injury. I started working out for 2 weeks when I noticed the gyno coming back. I since broke my arm and haven't lifted in 4 weeks. Thanks all


#2

did you read the sticky?


#3

Yes I did I was just looking for some reasons as to why I got gyno after not using PH's for over a yr. I understand that there are other causes but all of my bloodwork has always come back normal. I am seeking advice on what to do whether it be go to the ENDO and get a full blood panel or if I should just let the Tamoxifen run its course.


#4

Don't take your doc's word for it, ask to get copies of your labs whenever you have them done. To some docs, 300 is "normal" because it's within lab ranges. That doesn't mean it's healthy or desirable. Remember that obesity, diabetes and cancer are pretty "normal" in our society, too. Adrenal function is tied in with the larger endocrine system, yes, and adrenal issues can be related to hypogonadism.

There's a lot of great info in the TRT forum, that is probably more of what you're looking for. You might be a candidate for TRT but for that full labwork is needed.


#5

Thanks for the help reidnez!

I've been thinking of asking to get more bloodwork and for the lab results. I have a pretty good doc who had no problem prescribing me Tamoxifen when I asked for it so I am hoping that he will be open to TRT if necessary. Truthfully I feel like a slight boost of Testosterone will solve most of my problems ( I guess that is true for most people). I am pretty sure I have only one adrenal gland since I have one kidney but i have never gotten a conformation on that although my anatomy professor said that if you have one kidney you have 1 adrenal gland but i don't know if thats true.


#6

Just asked for all my lab results will be posting them as soon as i get them. I am hoping those more experienced will help me. I may put the results in the TRT forum. Thanks again for the help.


#7

Good thinking. I've had two endo's who have known absolutely nothing in terms of proper hormone levels and proper hormone supplementation. I have no idea how they became doctors.


#8

Can anyone answer me this question I have renal agenisis and I was told by an anatomy professor that I therefore only have one adrenal gland which makes sense considering they are connected. I have never asked my Dr about because I never thought it would be an issue. If I only have one adrenal gland would that make me have less energy? And if so what could I do to increase its function. Thanks ALL


#9

Excuse me while I finish laughing that you went and got bloodwork done with your real doctor while on an AAS cycle....lololololololololololl

Ok, now that that's out of the way...I really wasn't laughing at you, I was really just laughing at the situation and your doctor's surprise when your bloodwork came back at 10x the upper range...

You state you only have one kidney and one adrenal gland. But it seems as if you are unsure about the adrenal gland (an anatomy professor told you this?). I'm assuming you had your kidney removed for whatever reason and they took the adrenal gland along with it?

Regardless, your situation is most easily explained by hypocortisolism due to your missing adrenal gland. Your body has a natural set point for all its hormonal metabolic rates (cortisol, thyroid, test, E2 armoatization, etc.). This is tightly controlled using negative feedback, and cortisol seems to be the predominant player. When your T metabolism outpaces your cortisol metabolism, your body attempts to dump T to bring it in line with the lowered cortisol. This is usually by way of aromatization to E2 (some also get a DHT dump...how is your libido, hairline, and prostate?). High E2 causes gyno.

Of course this is just speculation, but most easily answers the mail. Post your bloodwork and let's have a look.

Two things:

-Most doctors are in the business of keeping you alive in the short term and have no interest in optimizing your health in the long run, so when they say your bloodwork is "normal" they are really just saying you are going to live past the office visit.
-Gyno doesn't go away, as far as I'm aware. The tissues can shrink, which is probably happening when you take the SERM, but once you get it, I think the only way to truly get rid of it is cosmetic surgery (no insurance, sorry).

Also, the MODS may want to move this to the TRT forum.


#10

Hey VT thanks for the reply. I know it was dumb to get bloodwork when I was on a prohormone but I had an unexpected issue and the Dr. wanted bloodwork done so what can you do. I have renal agenisis meaning that I was born with one kidney the 2nd one got lost in the mail somewhere. Hypocorosolism could explain it and I am getting the bloodwork hopefully today apparently it takes a few days for the Dr.'s office to make a couple copies.

I have had a really strong libido lately but there have been times where a have little to no libido. I also have the classic widow's peak and I dont know if that is due to this issue or just my natural hairline. My prostate is fine as far as I know although I do piss alot. I will be posting the bloodwork ASAP. THanks again.


#11

OK finally got my labs. If you want anything I leave out just let me know.

Last test in 2010 when I was 22

Estradiol 22 Normal 13.5-59.5PG/ML

FSH, Serum 3.7 Normal 1.5-12.4MIU/ML

LH, Serum 3.9 Normal 1.7-8.6MIU/ML

Total Test 5.1 Normal 2.8-8.0NG/ML

DHEA, Serum 368 Normal 110-510mcg/dL

Estrogen, Total 72 Normal 40-115

2008 Results I was 20

FSH 2.0 Normal 1.4-18.1 mIU/mL

LH 3.2 Normal 1.5-9.3mIU/mL

TSH 1.547 Normal 0.450-4.500uIU/mL

Test, Serum 313 Normal 241-827uIU/mL
Prolactin 3.2 Normal 2.1-17.7ng/mL

Estradiol 39 Normal 0-53pg/mL

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 29 Normal 13-71nmol/L

For this test my Bilirubin, AST(SGOT), and ALT(SGPT) were all high...have no idea what that means

Had another test when I was 21 BUT I was taking a PH so I am not going to post the results b/c they are skewed unless someone wants me to.


#12

Interesting...your E2 is actually very good...it improved significantly from 2008 to 2010...

Your T is a bit low for a 22 year old, it appears, and your lowish FSH/LH/Prolactin could indicate a possible pituitary problem (or your body really is downregulated due to low cortisol). Otherwise, everything looks pretty good.

If you go back to the doc, I would push for Cortisol (8 am) and DHT tests, but truthfully mate, I would be surprised if this was the cause of your gyno (may be impacting your lifestyle elsewhere though).

Were you overweight as a child? Some people are more prone to gyno than others, especially if overweight before adult years.


#13

Thanks VT yea I was a bit overweight as a child not obese but def fat. do you think given the fact my T is relatively low for a 23yr old that I could be eligible for TRT? When I go to the Dr. I will ask for a DHT and Cortisol test. Could having low cortisol result in fatigue and things like that? I also feel depressed sometimes. I know I don't have classic depression but I feel a bit off sometimes which makes me believe that TRT would help. This would also help with the libido issues i sometimes have.


#14

Also MODS if you could move this to the TRT forum I would appreciate it or if I can do that someone please let me know


#15

I read the T replacement sticky and i have many of the problems listed such as "fogginess", occasional low libido, social withdraw, boobs, female fat, don't get morning wood all the time i can go 2 or 3 weeks where I get it almost everyday other times I don't get it at all, i am also a "moody bitch" and I also get right testicular pain occasionally..went to another doctor for that and he was no help (thought i had kidney stones). can anyone help me out? I understand my Test may not be below normal levels but with all of these symptoms I feel like my body needs more Test or more of something. I'm hoping KSman can utter some words of wisdom here. Thanks again


#16

Test DHEA-S not DHEA. DHEA is prone to spikes and valleys and is unreliable...DHEA-S has a longer shelf life in your system.

I would have bet (and lost) a lot of cash you had high E2.

Before you go about supplementing T you need to make sure your supporting hormones are in order. You had a good TSH in 2008 but I would retest it, along with FT3/FT4 just to be sure. 8am cortisol is also crucial.

How is your insurance? Can you afford to get a "luxury" line of labs or are you going the economic route?

Think about the times your libido has disappeared. Were there external factors, i.e. diet changes, stress factors in your life, supplement changes... anything at all that could explain it, other than sheer randomness?


#17

THanks for the reply. Luckily I have fantastic insurance right now and don't think i'll have to pay for any of the labs therefore I am basically going to ask for the works. My libido is tricky unfortunately I do not remember all the times I had low libido and the circumstances around it. For the past month I haven't been working and haven't had much stress...my libido has been through the roof. I just got back to work and feel a little higher level of stress in other areas and I still have libido but it is noticeably lower with no morning wood for the last 4 or 5 days.

Would it be possible for someone to give me a list of test to ask for? I called the ENDO today and asked for TT FSH LH cortisol Free test and DHT. I had different doctor appointment today with a general practicioner and showed him my bloodwork. He told me that my test was a little low especially for being 20-22 at the times of the tests. He also told me that if my ENDO wouldn't order the bloodwork to come back and he would. This was very encouraging making me think that he will be able to help me more than the ENDO. I am going to schedule another appointment hopefully within the next week THanks all


#18

You can get a good idea of testing in the stickies... etther the newbie sticky or the lab test/symptom sticky.

Make sure your cortisol draw is at 8am.


#19

thanks I based my lab request on the sticky by KSman. Hopefully I will get the bloodwork done soon I just need to go to the dr and talk to him about it.


#20

Just thought of a questiion..I am taking Tamoxifen right now for my Gyno will this affect my bloodwork? If so should I just taking it now?