They are both rather advanced… I can’t speak for their programming though.
Look up Consolidation of Stressors. Frequency is just a variable and when balanced appropriately with other variables, I don’t find too much difference over the long term myself.
This will turn into a debate that has the potential to become patently absurd if you don’t have the experience and results to formulate your opinions.
Just try out different things and evaluate your results to decide what’s best for you.
very good point.
I’ve started training less recently and am doing way better on it in certain ways, slightly worse in others.
My strength and size gains are coming way faster than when I tried to hit everything twice, so the extra recovery is doing me good, but the body composition isn’t as good.
I think it’s more to do with your individual recovery and how hard you push in your sessions. I have a fast metabolism so I think extra days where I don’t train and just eat do me good.
I wouldn’t consider myself to be a particularly “advanced” lifter but I guess that’s a relative term.
Yeah If you’re someone who loves to push for hard sessions 1 times a week frequency might be appropriate. But if you can back off a little and appropriately periodise your training, the scientific and anecdotal concensus is that a frequency of 2-3 times a week does provide superior gains.
I really don’t think they do. 5/3/1 and pretty much all of CT’s recent stuff is based on movements, not “bodyparts”, so that’s going to blur the issue right off the bat.
But if you did try to look at them from those perspectives, 5/3/1 is basically an upper/lower split, hitting each batch of muscles twice a week. Not everything gets direct work, but you’re doing some kind of pressing work twice a week (hitting the chest or shoulders with 5/3/1 and accessory work for back, chest, shoulders, and arms in both sessions usually), a quad-dominant move once or twice a week (not uncommon have higher rep squats on the 5/3/1 deadlift day), hamstring-dominant exercises twice a week (again, deadlift variations on the 5/3/1 squat day aren’t uncommon).
CT’s plans are pretty varied but the focus is, again, often one big lift per workout with 5-6 workouts per week (which means revisiting a movement pattern/“bodypart” more than once a week) or they’re upper/lower (or sometimes full body) workouts.
Which one of Wendler’s templates has you train a muscle group only once a week?
He has a few templates where you train twice a week with one upper and one lower body workout per week.
Could you tell me which ones? I haven’t seen any like that before.
Edit: Wait; are we not counting all the jumps, throws and conditioning as hitting the muscles?
No, you don’t.
Re read the template.
LikeChris is saying, it is not as simple as “I only barbell curl once a week, so it’s once a week biceps, right?” Err, no.
I was just talking about the strength training template.
The amount of jumps and throws he recommends is very low.
There are templates like this
Squat/ deadlift (alternate every week)
High rep press variation
(superset with with some kind of late work.
This is upper and lower being worked once a week. Unless you count the throws and jumps etc. I don’t.
I read Chris’ post and he seems to be talking only about the original 4 day routine.
This is a limited template for those who can only train twice a week, not really fair to lump this into his other programs for people who no time constraints. Of course if you only have 20 minutes to train you will have to make concessions, but it wouldn’t be fair to use CT’s 20 minute muscle builder as an example of his programs.
Just pick a proven program like the one Chris linked or this Thib one.
All laid out and no thinking needed…
No, I’m talking about 97% of 5/3/1 templates which train movements more than once per week, most often once as the 5/3/1 work and another session working a variation of that movement as assistance.
What you laid out is one way to run a limited twice a week plan (which, like Lonnie said, is quite a reach to use as an example in the first place). Another way to train 5/3/1 twice a week which Wendler wrote about here is squat, bench, and assistance one day; dead, press, and assistance another day. This template can easily work the same “bodyparts” in both sessions if the lifter wanted to.
There’s also the 5/3/1 rest-pause template that uses full body workouts twice a week. So, again, it’s very fair to say that 5/3/1 almost never trains a “bodypart” once per week.
It’s not a reach to use that as an example at all. I’m on his forum and the vast majority of Jim’s two day a week programs these days are like what I posted and he recommends 2 days a week a lot.
I’m well aware there are full body 2 day a week routines but he doesn’t seem to post them much now (those articles is from 2012 and 2013). I was replying to T3hPwnisher who was asking what templates only train a muscle once a week. There are lots like that. Far more than you seem to be aware of.
Yep, I’m not a member of his private forum so I can only go by what I’ve seen Jim say elsewhere. I’ll let him speak for himself. From 48 hours ago:
And from 6 weeks ago:
"The other thing you can do is this:
Squat - 5’s PRO, BBS or BBB or Widowmaker or 5x5/3/1
Bench - 5’s Pro, 3x5 FSL
Deadlift - 5s PRO, 3x5 FSL
Press - see squat above for options
Push-ups x 100 total reps
Chin-ups x 50 total reps
1 mile run"
Looks like a full body 2-day plan to me.
You were also incorrectly guessing at what I meant when I made a comment earlier. I was clarifying.
I’m not sure what the point of posting that post from Jim. I’m not saying he doesn’t ever recommend a routine like that. I’m currently training full body 2 days a week myself. My only point was there are a lot templates like I mentioned earlier.
you could do the original 5/3/1 and still train everything once a week, or you could train everything as many times as you like.
I’m not sure what the point of arguing this is.
If you Bench Press on “chest day” you’re also hitting your shoulders and triceps. If you Overhead Press on “shoulder day” you’re working your delts and tri’s a second time. Same deal if you squat on “leg day” and deadlift on “back day”, the quads hams and butt work in both.
If you’re using ONLY isolation excercises to hit all your muscles once a week your program probably sucks. Just my 2c.