T Nation

Possible to Cut Without Tren? Bulk Without Deca?

Can you cut down pretty well without tren (the hard grainy look)
Can you bulk up really well without deca?
Ive done roids just once before
Test e, deca and drol
Worked well except for the deca…
Gonna stay away from deca for sure.

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Of course. Check out the natural Body Builders who do it drug free. Seriously though there are other compound options too for a dryer cycle.

I tend to start away from 19-nor compounds as well due to their affect on my libido. Again though there are plenty of compounds out there to choose from. Yes deca and tren each work very well but are not the end all be all.


Thank you for taking the time to reply…
Well last time i did deca there’s was a huge libido almost 24 hrs but when it came to the real deal it was pretty much average sometimes worse ( I’ll lose erection in between) therefore I don’t think I’ll do deca ever ( I was dosing 400mg a week ÷ in two parts which is pretty less for some) …could be my psychology or too much info on " Deca dick" I had… Got anxious in bed…
So I’ve decided now when I do my next cycle ill do sustanon, equip and tren a (shorter ester so that if any issue I can stop right away…
What do you think sir and what doses you would suggest (as per your knowledge)

EQ needs to be run for very long cycles to yield mass gains. Tren Ace would be a short cycle. Are you on TRT? If you are you could boost your test a bit and pin 50mg Tren Ace a day as a starter tren cycle. If not on TRT I would pair it with T Prop, not Sus.

No sir I’m off the gear since nov 2019 … I’ve read on many forums that Time on= Time off . I did a 16 week cycle so now I’m more than 16 weeks off gear…
Since it’s lockdown no access to gyms it seems no use to start it rn but once the gym opens and some local shows are organized will do a proper bulk for 4 months and then cut say 2 months or you thing 2 months is too long?
Can plz suggest a cycle for a proper prep(just a rough idea about how it should look so I can compare with what I have in mind)?
I’m 30 years old, around 67kgs ,169cms tall, around 13℅ bf
Thank you🙏

Wow, I’m surprised I’m heavier than you, we are the same height and I’m fighting UC/Autoimmune to gain weight. I would love to see your physique. It’s probably because your body fat is so low, do you have visible abs?

To answer your question, in my opinion for your first cycle you could have gained around 90% of the maximum amount of weight you could have gained in 3 months without gaining too much fat on a TRT dosed test only cycle. And you could throw in low dose primo or masteron to maximise on contractile tissue gains/preemptively fight high estrogen related sides incase

Dude you are not 13%. I suggest, before hopping on gear again to check your nutrition and training beforehand. For how long have you been lifting? Not to be mean but “on” you look worse than many naturals I know. So if you don’t improve your training and nutrition, all the gear in the world will be wasted and bring more health issues than muscles.


Wow bro, looking good, you look like my cousin. you didn’t have to post pictures if you don’t feel comfortable by the way. Feel free to delete them if you want, some guys here have unreasonable standards and only compliment elite level physiques. I would guess you are probably 5’5" without shoes and around 20% bodyfat.

If you can afford it you could contact Derek from more plates more dates or coach Greg Doucette for coaching depending on your goals, interests and what you can gain from them.

Other than that I might come back later and reflect on what I think would be ideal for your next cycle

Keep it up bro, I think you have potential

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What? No, not only elite. Or then I am elite and I wasn’t aware. And I never said he looked bad, but he doesn’t look like he’s taken gear.

Doucette or Derek would tell you exactly the same thing if you listen to them, and trust me I’ve watched all their videos: to take roids the later possible, when you know you are on point on nutrition and training. They know that gear has a toll on your health, and if you take gear but train like sub-optimally and gain only a third of what you could have gained, this is a wasted cycle, because you can only do so much cycles before your hair falls, or your start having heart or liver problems.

Yeah we are probably agressive about gear usage, especially on younger folks, because we know that there’s more to it than just gains. Don’t you think I ever thought about taking them?


I would have to agree 100%. You’re floating closer to 20% by look. I am same height and about 50lbs heavier. I caliper at 15% but those electronic scanners read me even higher. No shame in it as the lower teens are very hard to achieve. Keep working at it and learning along the way. FWIW I’ve never touched tren and didn’t use deca for any of my gaining either. Test and hard work.


This seems to be a much more reasonable and sustainable approach, and certainly what I’ll be doing when I’m 40+

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Hiyya aldebaran

I hope you are well, I think your physique looks really good, are you natty? you probably do have an elite level physique compared to the rest of the world’s population but maybe thats just subjective. Anyway I wasn’t talking about anyone specifically, but from what I’ve seen people hardly ever get any compliments around here. And harsh criticism does not work for everyone. I was just worried about him eventually getting too much criticism that could potentially impact his confidence.
Back to the op, I’m not disagreeing with you, but we have no idea what he looked like before that cycle. And since he said he plans to enter a contest I assumed his diet will be dialed in.

@deadlift1709 I’m 5’6" without shoes, visible abs, and around 72kg right now, which is I think you must be 5’5"…

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Hi, yes I am, but I’ve been training hard for 5+ years.

Yeah you’re right. I mean if this gentleman has not been training for long he certainly has made good progress. And indeed it’s hard to judge when we are not lean enough. But it’s that we’ve seen too many kids here inflict terrible things to their bodies for not much. I’m not saying this is the case here, but as you said, we lack information to determine so.


That’s impressive bro, I admire your hard work. And I agree, I think we should ask @deadlift1709 to find out?

I’m 169 cms without shoes

Thank you brother… Will Wait for your reply

Thank u… Will keep learning

Thank you… Will work on it🙏

Training from the last 3 years… I’m 30 now

Maybe it’s because my legs are big that I thought we’re not the same height…@aldebaran want to know more about your diet