T Nation

Possible Shutdown, Need Advice


#1

Ok guys, I know the culture of this board is very aggressive against dumbass moves when it comes to gear. This is my fourth cycle in 4 years and I have never had this issue in the past. I have went from 150 lbs to 200 lbs in this time frame. I feel I could have put on more weight, but there were months where I had to train for military selection that required a ton of running and swimming.

My weight has fluxuated between 175-200 the past 2 years. I feel strong as I have not lost energy and strength, only my libido is suffering. I have the ability to get fully hard with no product assistance, but I do not have the strong sex drive that I normally feel. If I take a viagra everything feels normal, but achievng an errection takes longer than it should, and requires me to basicly play with myself. The important thing as that I do get rock hard.

Here are my stats and useage of the past cycle.

30 years old
6'0
200 lbs
500mg Test - 12 weeks
I added 40mg Anavar - the final 8 weeks
I also ran arimidex the enitre time.
PCT: I ONLY USED CLOMID AS PCT. I started a week after my last pin which I Now understand is a big no no. In the past I would only wait a couple days, and I have never experienced a loss of libido.

I discontinued the clomid after about 3 weeks of PCT because I was experiencing this loss of libido and I figured one of two things. 1. It was bunk. or 2. it was causing the loss of libido. I have read that some people have a total loss of libido on Clomid.

I am ready for the asshole comments, and any suggestion would be appretiated. I am planning on getting blood work done if this lasts another couple weeks. I still have the clomid and arimidex on hand if that means anything. I feel that I was lucky in the past, and that even though I thought I knew what I was doing, I should have done more research than just "word of mouth" from meathead phds at the gym.

Should i restart the clomid? or is it useless at this point even if it is real. I aquired it from a known site. I have no proof this stuff is legit.


#2

I’ve only pctd like one time but i believe nolvadex to be better than clomid. You should have started your pct 2 weeks after your last pin, and you cut your pct short. Which means you only did a pct of around 2 weeks, not good. If I were you I would get some nolvadex tabs from a reliable source and re run a proper pct for 6 weeks to be sure. But wait for more informed people about pct to chime in.


#3

This would be to prevent people from doing dumb things, not to chastise someone when dumb shit has already been done. That would defeat the purpose.

Here are some possible reasons:

  1. You’re supposed to be shut down after a cycle. What cycles have you done in the past?

2.You shouldn’t have stopped the clomid or at least made the switch to nolva. Do what eatliftsleep said and run it for 6 weeks.

  1. Did you run the adex during pct? Clomid alone won’t cut it for estrogen control, which may be the reason for prolonged loss of libido.

  2. Loss of libido is also due to psychological factors. Stressing about won’t help and only make things worse.

It is highly unlikely you did any permanent damage. Get bloodwork done and do the required research so next time you know how to address symptoms early when something unexpected happens. This is why people get yelled at.


#4

i agree with a lot that has been already said…

  1. PCT shouldn’t start until a big chunk of the ester is out of the body… since the most testosterone a guy can produce is 70 mg/wk, i suggest waiting for PCT for until that taper has occurred. depending on the dose used, it’s usually 2-4 weeks post cycle. the other thing is, ANY AMOUNT of an outside hormone is going to cause HPTA suppression. so, it’s still gonna take about a month for all of the test e to get out of your body, and until it does, it hinders how much your own production recovers… that’s part of why short PCT’s don’t work well. next time, i’d suggest starting Nolva at 20 mg/night on week 14, and running it for 6-8 weeks.

  2. i also recommend running the AI on the weeks between the cycle and PCT… you can lower the dose, but it helps keep estrogen low, and you want it on the lower end for PCT. estrogen is much more suppressive to the HPTA than high test, so if you allow that to rebound, then you need to get rid of it.

  3. you are getting older… 30 isn’t old, by any means, but your recovery is prolly gonna get harder every year you’re still cycling…

  4. i don’t like clomid due to the many emotional/vision side effects, and it also decreases the body’s responsiveness to GnRH, while Nolvadex actually increases it. we especially do not want to decrease responsiveness in PCT, so unless it’s your only choice for PCT, i would not use Clomid…

  5. i’m not asking what unit/branch you’re in, but i have a sneaking supisicion that "selection (Ranger, BUDs, SAS, SFAS, etc) completely wrecks guys’ hormone levels. in fact, i think many guys would be well served to do a PCT after completing selection…

  6. traumatic brain injury can wreck hormones levels as well. i know a couple guys that got hit by a few IEDs that are dealing with that know. this is also pretty common for boxers/fighters that have suffered a lot of brain trauma… PTSD, or the medications used to treat it can also cause a ton of sexual side effects…

at this point, you have several options, but getting bloodwork might be the best idea right now…


#5

Thanks for all the good info guys. I think i will just schedule an apt to get blood work done. I will most likely cycle again in the future, but I will wait until my body is functioning properly and I will deffinatly take in this info. I guess I felt that I was bullet proof the last few years since I never had any issues. I do think age/stress has come into play.

Yeah I have went through BUD/S in the past, only to have an ACL tear end my dream of working on the teams. This selection was for Airforce PJ, which was cut short due to the 2013 government shutdown, and the slashing of all prior service contracts. It is ok though, as I got a great paying Private Military Contracting job with a reputable firm doing security work for anti piracy.

Thanks for all the great info guys. I basicly realized i knew squat about PCT. I will plan better next time.


#6

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]

  1. Loss of libido is also due to psychological factors. Stressing about won’t help and only make things worse.
    .[/quote]

Agree agree agree the psychological issuse comming off sucked for me, so I stay on now


#7

You just NEVER come off? Are you at a place where trt would be necessary? Or do you have a system in place. I guess I have heard arguements from people who said they plan on using for life anyway, so why worry…but I am just wondering the dynamics of staying on for life. I always had a suspicion that long term use was why many of the WWF stars from the 1980s had health complications, not to mention they were most likley drinking, doing coke, abusing pain pills, not sleeping, eating poorly etc. while on.


#8

[quote]theunionforever wrote:
You just NEVER come off? Are you at a place where trt would be necessary? Or do you have a system in place. I guess I have heard arguements from people who said they plan on using for life anyway, so why worry…but I am just wondering the dynamics of staying on for life. I always had a suspicion that long term use was why many of the WWF stars from the 1980s had health complications, not to mention they were most likley drinking, doing coke, abusing pain pills, not sleeping, eating poorly etc. while on. [/quote]

Well i have always had a few problems with anxiety and depression/ bipolar disorder the last few years it hasn’t really been an issue. i kind of block that shit out and focus on my family work and gym. After my first cycle i came off and all the problems came back 10 times worse after a few visits with an endo we came to the conclusion i don’t NEED trt but the problems i am having are due to hormone imbalance and he was happy to prescribe me a script for trt the last month of being on low dose cruise i have come back to normal libido is up again and mental stability is better then ever and blood work is showing everything within normal range. I am yet to read any research on weather or not trt affects ones long term health but if it dose i am willing to accept them consequences if it improves my overall quality of life. granted that trt isnt really designed for blasting and cruising but i am goin to do steroids anyway so it dosnt matter about that. something that really resonated with me was said to me awhile ago i think walkway said it but steroids are not meant to be started and stoped.