T Nation

Possible High E2?

Hey,

Curious about your guys take on this.

I’ve been on 400mg test cyp for 3.5 weeks (500mg week 1) now and winstrol 40mg / day for past 2 weeks.

No Aromasin yet as I haven’t been feeling any real symptoms just yet and don’t wanna crash my e2 without reason.

No major strength increase, scale hasn’t really budged either (stuck at 235lbs) eating good on a cut diet with high protein, mid carb/fat. Not sure if it’s too early or my gear is junk.

Feeling a bit more tired this week and bit more lack of motivation but no gyno or nipple probs, maybe a tad bit more cranky but not emotional at all - just curious if you guys think my e levels are rising and should start 6.25mg Aromasin ED if it gets worse (blood work depending)

Getting blood work done this week to confirm fully where my T, free T and E2 levels are at. Is it normal to not see much change at all almost a month in?

So you’re cutting… the weight on the scale doesn’t move for 2 reasons, first is water retention and second ppssible lean muscle mass increse. That’s IF you’re in calorie deficit.

Also don’t expect strength increase like on a bulk or maintenance… just cuz you’re on aas it doesn’t make up for the calorie/energy deficit… I’m assuming it’s not your first time with aas?

Only bloods will say whether your T is underdosed/overdosed or etc.

You’re are 100% gonna experience e2 problems at anything more than 300mg some say they don’t, yeah right… maybe they don’t feel it or they are not sensitive to e2 sides/symptoms foe example gyno and water retention which one might think is muscle lol…

How much ai nobody can tell you, I don’t have exp with asin only with adex so on this dose of T atleast for me I need 0.5mg every other day.

60mgs of winstrol nuked my strenght to a level i was afraid to continue my set because it felt so light i was afraid my knees will break…
My gf did a bit of winny and she blew up 8lbs on caloric deficit and trippled her reps on all exercises with same weight in like 2 weeks.

No strenght on winny is weird. Then again, depends on your cycle history - if you have been 10 years on drugs, maybe there is not much left to get out of em.

i had 10 times over the norm e2 for a year, didnt get any of this also… not everyone gets that… i dont even get bloat on high e2… in fact, one of my leanest shapes was on 300 e2 when the normal range is 0-39… no bloat, no gyno… doesnt mean its not high e2…

anyway, bloodwork is the only way to tell so there is not much to talk about in here.

I’d just wait for labs to come back

I’m gonna 100% disagree and caution the use of 100% in further discussions. We are all different. “Some” have issues at 300mg/wk and some don’t. I would dare say the majority don’t. I have issues on 400mg+ but less than that. None. Point being speaking in absolutes doesn’t work and further this is just plain wrong.

3 Likes

Idk, everyone can have his/her opinion…

I don’t believe that majority of guys can run 300mg without AI and not feel any sides. It doesn’t make sense as this amount of T is just too high, so estrogen will go up too. Atleast majority of guys will not feel comfortable running 300mg of test.

Anyway, I used to like test, but now I think it’s best used as a base as there are more tissue selective aas.

You’re correct that E2 will go up as well. But noticeable sides don’t manifest in everybody especially when you consider testosterone is high too.

I don’t disagree here. It still a logical first stepping stone, higher test, but once you’ve tried it a time or two a base with another compound makes sense.

1 Like

I guess you’re right, it’s just me that I don’t find testosterone that “great” anymore and maybe with age my mentality did change, that more is not always better.

At 300mg/week my E2 sensitive is 34.8. Not even out of lab corps range lol hell I’ve thought about experimenting with ADDING estrogen to see how I feel.

i had 10 times over the norm of e2 before i even knew there is such a thing as anastrozole.
i wasnt bloated at all, no gyno(not prone to it in any way) and actually no noticable problems…
would you say that just because i didnt have noticable sides, i shouldnt try to keep my e2 at least somewhat close to double the norm instead of 10 times the norm?

What im saying is - sometimes drunks dont feel liver failure also, doesnt mean they are ok… what is your opinion on this?

at 400mg of test, my e2 is 39 on 1 tab on anastrozole a day, lol… if i want to add estrogen i just need to smell a vial of test :smiley:

Yes I actually would say you don’t need to combat this with absent symptoms. I’ll write more on this tomorrow.

i will be waiting, this is important for me :slight_smile:

Ok so here’s my thoughts on this subject. You used the analogy of an alcoholic feeling ok but damaging their liver. For starters, this is a known correlation. While its not completely irrelevant, its different to say that consumption of any drug/substance known to cause downstream problems is the same as having asymptomatic high E2. The most common issues with high E2 are gynecomastia, fluid retention, mood swings and ED. You have non of those according to your own words. These issues themselves such as fluid retention can be dangerous but if you don’t have them what are you worried about?

Less common issues with high E2 are enlarged prostate, feminine body fat deposits, etc but these are typically only in high E2 with low T issues (andropause).

Point being you are artificially jacking up your hormones via external Test and then worrying about your numbers being high. Assuming you are taking labs and other biomarkers are normal I don’t see the point in controlling E2 without symptoms.

So, in your opinion, i would be better of with 300 e2 instead of 30 e2 with AI ? (normal range being 0-39) cuz that is where i was without AI.

Let me ask you this… what did your blood work look like both before and after the AI other than your E2? Do you have labs from both? I’d be curious to see your lipids both on and off as well.

Lipids didnt change much. Mine are +/- 10% the same, just as ASAT/ALAT(idk if thats a term in english also but its liver enzymes) all my life no matter what i do or take. Im very happy with that.

If 300 isn’t causing you issues? Then yeah, that would be preferable. High e2 coupled with high test isn’t all that different than in-range e2 coupled with in-range test. The test to e2 ratio is a pretty useful measurement. Again, this assumes no side effects from having higher e2. If a guy gets gyno when he’s 20% over the standard range then obviously he needs to address that. Unfortunately nobody knows how they respond ex ante, hence the advice to always have an AI on hand and monitor things like bloat, mood, et al and get blood work done periodically.

I already halved my AI dosage. Will do bloodwork next week, and then experiment with letting my e2 higher, because i think that - the less shit i need to take(AI included) the better.

1 Like