T Nation

Possible Gyno Worsening


#22

I don’t. Plastic surgery is probably out of this forums scope. It sounds like you have a very good source to get this taken care of.


#23

Is it tissue or fat?.. email me if you can. I had some of these issues as well. Cbaum72@gmail.com


#24

I’m losing weight so it’s getting easier to determine what’s what. I went to eod dosing this week from 2x a week and have been taking .125 anastrozole when pinning and suddenly feel a lot better. I was dumping a lot of fat last month so I think it’s possible i had an estrogen spike. I feel a lot better since going eod. My nipples feel much better/less sensitive. Could be the new dosing or maybe I’m stabilizing or the additional anastrozole. Who knows.

@clike1,
I think I have a combination of fat and maybe some glandular tissue as well. I’ll shoot you an email. I may schedule a consult next month with a plastic surgeon. I’m hoping to be down 5-10 lbs next month so it should be clearer still. I’m still having a hard time losing weight. I think I’m getting leaner but retaining some water and adding bulk/muscle. I know there is some stubborn visceral adipose I still have to burn through. It’s been tough. Just in the last year is the first time in my life I’ve had trouble losing weight. It’s one of the reasons I am trying trt to begin with along with having zero libido drive and really low energy.


#25

Glad your starting to feel better. Seems I get fat gyno on my chest when I start any kind of trt even with low e2. I had liposuction done couple years ago. Just wanted compare notes


#26

Just to give an update. I don’t know if it was my body stabilizing, the extra anastrozole, or my changing to EOD dosing but just the last week things have settled down a lot. Here is my current protocol:

.125mg Anastrozole
.175 ml of 200mg/ml Test Cyp
HCG 250 iu
I do that EOD Monday,Wednesday,Friday,Sunday

Basically I am halving the dose and doubling the frequency.

My nipple sensitivity is minimal.

I am only really worried now about crashing my E2 and think what was going on was my body adjusting. I think it’s possible I may not need 4 doses of AI a week. I will probably stay here though through my next blood tests just because I want to be stabilized for my next set of labs so we can dial in further.

I’m doing my workout EOD and have gotten good results which is nice. I strained my calf about 2 weeks into running and am rolling it out daily and will resume that next week. I was getting strong there too but did some crazy steep hills (trail running really) and I think I overextended it a little.


#27

I feel if I take an AI before my levels become stable, I’m cheating myself because I’ll never know how I would have felt at 6 weeks had I not taken an AI. Last Sunday I finished a new protocol and estrogen definitely calm down by a huge margin, bloat was subsiding and estrogen felt lower than it did weeks 4-5.

I need to know what my EOD protocol feels like without introducing an AI because I’m willing to live several months with estrogen slightly high to give me enough time to drop weight and decrease the aromatase enzymes in my fat tissue and lower estrogen.


#28

@systemlord,

So you’re saying it does calm down a bit with time because you end up losing fat and therefore aromatase activity from adipose tissue?

If you had to guess based on experience would you say things might have calmed down for me regardless and perhaps the needle is now possibly going to swing back to far the other way?

Knowing I can get to where I am now makes me think I should maybe minimize my AI again and see how my body feels.


#29

This is exactly what happened to me. Kept the dosage the same but due to fat loss it was now too much and crashed my E2.


#30

@NH_Watts,

I have not lost a lot of weight but I have put a lot of muscle mass back on my arms, shoulders, pecs and thighs and my profile looks leaner. I think I’ve probably dumped 10 lbs of fat and put on at least 5 of muscle. Once I went to smaller EOD doses the nipple sensitivity vanished. I think maybe I should stay with spreading things out and minimizing my AI.

At this point the extra AI might be overkill.

It would be nice if eventually I didn’t need one at all.


#31

Just drop it. What is the worst that could happen? Anastrozole has been shown to cause weight gain. I bet you lost more fat than you realize. My scale moved nearly 20 lbs but I know I dropped a lot of fat and put on a bit of muscle. You DO NOT want to crash it dude.


#32

I dunno, being embarrassed what you look like even in a tshirt is pretty bad man, lol.

I have read a lot of guys talking about how bad crashing E2 is. I don’t doubt it is bad but can you elaborate on the implications of doing that?


#33

Excess fat produces estrogen as well, almost always when an obese male starts TRT, he will definitely be converting a lot of testosterone into estrogen through the aromatase process. Sure there will be skinny guys who just aromatase more than usual, they are outliers.

Once you reach 6 weeks on a new protocol, estrogen should calm down and as you lose weight, estrogen should decrease to the point where if taking an AI, you may notice estrogen too low and that is the realisation it time to stop the AI permanently.

I don’t see why estrogen wouldn’t be lower after losing significant visceral fat.

I want to dial in without other chemicals in my body.


#34

osteoporosis, increased risk of cardiac events, mood swings, breast tenderness, hot flashes, depression, headaches, trouble concentrating, fatigue

Several members on here, my self included, have had debilitating tendon issues in joints that lasts months/years even after the E2 has been corrected.


#35

It took me months to correct what a small dose aromasin did to my knees even after correcting my estrogen, which had cause damage to the tissues, like with any hormone, healing takes time. Need

I should mention I also experienced bone pain in the hips and back, that terrifying to even think about.


#36

Not to be a wise ass but I have had a lot of those sorts of issues prior to TRT/for a while so maybe I should err on the side of caution. Perhaps I’ll go back to my original dose of .125 twice a week. I feel like my chest sensitivity issues may be a good bell weather of how my estrogen levels are. If I feel good at 2 weeks maybe I’ll drop the AI altogether.


#37

I dropped my Anastrozole dose today and will take one every other injection which is 2x a week and I think I’ll keep it there through my labs.

I am surprisingly still 217 today. I was overweight at 220 and last year got down to 204 at Christmas with some caloric restriction and lots of walking. I am way, way stronger than I was when I started this the Friday after Thanksgiving.

I’m 1 day into a 2 day intermittent fast and just did my freehand/dumbell workout. I really, really want to get with a trainer and do more.

Obervations:
I’m way stronger.
I’ve put on a lot of bulk in my arms, chest, shoulders, thighs and core. Much of it in my chest and arms.
my pants feel baggy and my belt feels snug two notches in from where it is most worn so my waistline is shrinking.
I still have a decent amount of bloat in my gut and I suspect some stubborn visceral fat. I still have a lot of fat on my chest but it feels looser a bit.

I’ll post my 90 day labs when I get them. Things going pretty good in general. I thought with my aggressive keto dieting and exercise I’d have been able to get under 210 but I am not even sniffing it right now. I suspect it’s gain in muscle and some water retention possibly still.


#38

Probably. Especially if you are noticing size and strength gains.


#39

My metabolism took a disturbing and sharp turn in just the last few years. Never had trouble losing weight. I think I was getting insulin resistant. My fasting glucose when waking has been at about 100 and sometimes higher which is considered pre-diabetic. My liver dumps too much glucose in the morning. I’m at day 2 of an intermittent fast and have no hunger at all. I may push this one to 3 days. I have had diverticulitis and have an inflammation problem in my sigmoid colon so the bowel rest is helpful. Bowel rest alone, they are finding, is actually just as effective at controlling attacks of diverticulitis as antibiotics and bowel rest. I just peed on my keto strip and it’s still only low/trace levels of keto so I suspect my liver is still dumping glucose. I think I’m going to push it to 3 days for sure. Sorry if I’m rambling. I took no AI yesterday and my nipples feel fine. I think I have burned through the aromatase factory that was my pre-TRT body/muffin top.


#40

No calories at all for 3 days?


#41

I broke my fast this morning with a whipped coffee with a tbs of MCT oil and grass fed butter. I followed it up with a vegan protein shake with some plain greek yogurt a couple of cherries and strawberries. My wife initiated sex at 4:30 AM after dropping my kid at swim practice. I was willing and able to accommodate her which was nice and would not have happened prior to TRT. I did my regular does of T .175 ml of my 200 mg/ml solution and 250 iu of HCG. I did not take my AI but that’s because I forgot. I’ll be watching my nipple sensitivity since I skipped my last dose as well. I am definitely going back down to the original 2 doses of .125 a week based on my issues dropping off sharply and may only take one a week after my Sunday/Monday dosing. I’m going EOD but doing Sunday/Monday back to back because I have not done the math to figure out what the dosing would be to do true EOD. I should probably do that.

How do you EOD guys handle the fact the week is only 7 days if you are prescribed amounts based on a week? I am assuming you do something like take your 4 week total and divide by 14. That sound right?