T Nation

Possible First Cycle

So, I’ll be leaving to train in Thailand for a few months. At the moment I’m walking around at 175 at just under 6’1. My body fat is fairly low, likely 8-10%. The reason I’ll be doing this cycle is maintain what mass I have and perhaps add some mass.

I will be training 6 or so hours a day, and if you have ever trained MMA/Muay Thai you know hard it is to keep weight on. I want to ideally maybe gain and keep 10lbs.

My lifts 270 bench/ 290 squat/ 450 dead

As for the cycle:

10weeks

400mg Test
400mg EQ

Now, as for which variant of Test to use? Prop or E? Does it even matter, which would be more applicable to my goal? From what I hear prop, might be better suited for staying leaner.

The main reason I want to use EQ is in regard to increased RBC production, which will definitely be helpful in regard to training. Ive also heard that it may be helpful in joint/tendon healing.

My only concern with regard to EQ is the potential for hairloss, I know it doesn’t convert to DHT like test does. I plan on taking 1mg of propecia while on cycle, to combat any possible hairloss…but that wont help in regard to EQ. I have also considered adding winstrol as well, but I think that may be a bit much for a first cycle.

PCT, I’ll use Nolva…perhaps clomid as well if you guys thinks its advisable.

Any input would be much appreciated. IE whether or not to use EQ, hairloss issues, dosage. Thanks again.

First off, how old are you?

Since it’s your first cycle, I would recomend a Test only cycle for the 10 weeks, injecting 400-500mg a week. I’d stay away from the Winny on your first run too.

Personally, I would recomend Test E as the compound to use. It is longer estered meaning less injections. I’m not sure which compound would be better suited for staying leaner, but Test E seems to be the norm for a first cycle.

How often do you plan on taking 1mg of Propecia? Everyday, EOD, once a week? A 10 week, test only cycle shouldn’t cause any hairloss, unless you’re already prone to male patern baldness.

As for PCT, Nolva should be fine, maybe get some Adex too if you can, incase of a flare up.

First, I’d like to thank you very much for your reply. I’m 23 right now, I’ll be turning 24 in 4 months. I am in fact prone to MPB, so I’m going to take propecia daily at a dose of 1mg. I use Nizoral and Saw Palmetto as it is, as a preventive to any hair loss.

In regards to the cycle, I know that a smaller dose of Prop will be equivalent to Test E. Personally I’d rather not pin daily, so perhaps I should go with Test E. Do you think 400mg weekly of Test E will be sufficient for my goal?

I’ve also read alot about both Nolva and Clomid, I realize that using HCG is probably not necessary. I was thinking of actually using both Nolva and Clomid, mainly because I hear that Clomid is useful in stimulating LH release.

Personally I’d like to use EQ, but if you think I can do without it I guess I won’t. The main reason being regenerative properties. I might add that 10 weeks is the max duration I will be able to be on cycle.

Well, take my thoughts with a few grains of salt since I’m still an AAS newb, but from my perspective it seems like an ok cycle for your goals. I like the idea of adding EQ for the RBC effect. If you’re ok with the possibility of the hair loss side, then I don’t see a problem using the EQ in addition to the test.

I know the conventional wisdom is a test only cycle, but training that much every day I think RBC count will definitely be helpful. In addition, it’s usually not a side-effect heavy compound.

I would take the test E as well for less frequent injections and potentially less injection pain due to high BA content of the solution-- that is something I’m going to have to manage in my cycle. You can’t train hard if you’re crippled with soreness from benzyl alcohol in your injection.

Ok I see, I will go with Test E at 400mg. I’ve done a good bit of research in regard to EQ and sides…man I really want to use it. But I am vain, and I don’t want to go bald, haha. I figure using propecia to combat the test will be effective, but hopefully someone whose done a Test/EQ cycle will be able to add some input in that regard. Thanks to all.

You can do a Test/EQ cycle if you like. I doubt that a short cycle like that will cause any major sides if your taking Propecia, and proper PCT of course.

However, keep in mind that EQ will increase your appetite to a fairly large degree. Do you really want to be in Thailand when that happens?

Now I’ve never been to Thailand, so I don’t know what kinds of varieties they have of foods, but seems like if you are gonna run a cycle like that, your gonna want to be well equiped with food that will help you see the best results. Like tons of proteins, lean chicken, red meat, etc.

Like I said, I am totally ignorant to Thai culture, and maybe I’m way off base here. But I’d just hate for you to start this cycle then be stuck sucking down Thai food all day, trying to get enough calories and protein.

As for PCT, I’d pick one, either Nolva or Clomid, it isn’t really necessary to run both in your case. I’d go with Nolva. 6’1’’ 175lbs is pretty slim so you may not have any bloating or gyno problems, but it doesn’t hurt to have some Adex on hand.

I actually like a nolva clomid combo for PCT.

I really do feel that adding clomid brings the boys back faster, but it fucks up your eyes and does mess with your head at the high doses you run it at.

I run clomid at 300 for the first day, then 150 for a week.

I run nolva along side it at 80 first day, then the standard taper down for the rest of the 3-4 weeks.

I keep running nolva at a low dose until I feel completely normal and recovered.

Make sure you have EVERYTHING for the COMPLETE cycle, before you start.

The worst thing that could happen is finishing your cycle and not have your PCT ready. Your fucked if that happens.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Well, I don’t know much, but I know this: from the few people on this forum that’ve been to Thailand, the food’s cheap there. Cheap and good, apparently. I think I remember Phill saying he got an all you can eat meal for him and 5 of his friends for like 15 bucks. Dunno.

But I did remember him saying that the protein was plentiful and cheap in the form of chicken.

But regardless, I could be wrong. And the point about appetite increase is very very good.

I assume you’ll be getting your AAS in Thailand. Perhaps you should hold off enough to gauge the local food scene before starting your cycle.

Test-Enanthate and EQ both have long esters. Some experience the bad side of anxiety with EQ, and it could take a while for that to show up. I had that unfortunate side, and it took a month to show.

To get the most benefit from EQ, it usually needs to be run for 10-12 weeks. I’d then run the test two weeks longer after last EQ injection. Given the lesting effects of the EQ, any reason why you’re not considering the six week stasis of 100mg test-e a week, followed by a six week taper?

[quote]5.0 wrote:
Test-Enanthate and EQ both have long esters. Some experience the bad side of anxiety with EQ, and it could take a while for that to show up. I had that unfortunate side, and it took a month to show.

To get the most benefit from EQ, it usually needs to be run for 10-12 weeks. I’d then run the test two weeks longer after last EQ injection. Given the lesting effects of the EQ, any reason why you’re not considering the six week stasis of 100mg test-e a week, followed by a six week taper? [/quote]

I will be there for exactly 12 weeks. So I figured a couple weeks of acclimatization to the environment should be enough to decide if I do indeed want to do a cycle. I’m going to order my Nolva and Clomid before I leave so it’ll be ready for me when I get back. I’ll likely also purchase some Nolva while Im over there, in case i have any flare ups. From your guys input, it seems ill definitely stick to 10 weeks of Test E, do you think the dosage is adequate? 5.0 can you elaborate more on stasis and tapering off? Once again thank you to everyone for your advice.

I also attached a current image, I’d imagine my body fat is sub 10% right now if not right at it.

No sense in reinventing the wheel. Refer to:

[quote]5.0 wrote:
No sense in reinventing the wheel. Refer to:

Ah I see, I think that would be ideal. However I have no way of obtaining gear here in the States, not sure if I want to either.

Ur pretty strong for ur size 175 at 6’1’’ is not very big but ur strong so u must have some muscle. I would not waste the money on the eq. I really hate eq I think its a fucking wate but thats just me. U will probably get the same results with just the test.

[quote]joeblow wrote:
Ur pretty strong for ur size 175 at 6’1’’ is not very big but ur strong so u must have some muscle. I would not waste the money on the eq. I really hate eq I think its a fucking wate but thats just me. U will probably get the same results with just the test.[/quote]

I can pull a good bit, thats about it. I plan on fighting at 155 or 170 so I don’t want to get bigger than 190. Anyone else have any input in regard to EQ? I mean if its not going to make a significant difference I’ll prob stick to just Test.

[quote]Avarice wrote:
I can pull a good bit, thats about it. I plan on fighting at 155 or 170 so I don’t want to get bigger than 190. Anyone else have any input in regard to EQ? I mean if its not going to make a significant difference I’ll prob stick to just Test. [/quote]

EQ is designed to give good lean body mass gains. Not near the growth of test, but growth none-the-less. As mentioned before, though, to reap the benefit, it typically needs to run 10 to 12 weeks.

[quote]5.0 wrote:
Avarice wrote:
I can pull a good bit, thats about it. I plan on fighting at 155 or 170 so I don’t want to get bigger than 190. Anyone else have any input in regard to EQ? I mean if its not going to make a significant difference I’ll prob stick to just Test.

EQ is designed to give good lean body mass gains. Not near the growth of test, but growth none-the-less. As mentioned before, though, to reap the benefit, it typically needs to run 10 to 12 weeks.[/quote]

5.0, you seem to be extremely knowledgeable in regard to AAS. For my goals, do would you recommend EQ? Will the EQ, aid in healing/joint recovery or is this just a myth? If I only run Test, will it be necessary to obtain an AI on cylce, like arimidex?

[quote]Avarice wrote:
5.0, you seem to be extremely knowledgeable in regard to AAS. For my goals, do would you recommend EQ? Will the EQ, aid in healing/joint recovery or is this just a myth? If I only run Test, will it be necessary to obtain an AI on cylce, like arimidex?[/quote]

I rank just above novice. Unless you’re one of those that succumb to the anxiety associated with EQ, it sounds like a good match. The EQ is supposed to help with everything you mentioned, increased RBC count, increased collagen production and synthesis for ligaments/tendons, and increase in lean body mass. Using test alone decreases collagen production and synthesis by a large degree. It can be a nice way of offsetting that unseen side affect.

An AI, like a’dex, is a must have. You’ll get differing opinions on whether to use it or not. Some say wait until symptoms arise, like bloat; other say use it no matter what to optimize gains. You’ll have to make your own educated decision there. I think it’s a must have, and important to use. You will control water retention and potentially acne, mood, and of course estrogen.

Avarice, keep in mind that EQ is one of the most detectable steroids for the longest amount of time. That and Deca.

I’m assuming since your going to Thailand to train MMA/Muay Thai that you’re pretty serious about the sport. So I’d hate to have your career ruined because of a positive test for a banned substance. EQ is detectable up to a year or two later. Test isn’t nearly as detectable.

If I were you, I’d run Test E 500mg a week for 10 weeks, Adex, and Nolva. Based on your goals, that cycle would be perfect for you.

[quote]ajax11 wrote:
Avarice, keep in mind that EQ is one of the most detectable steroids for the longest amount of time. That and Deca.

I’m assuming since your going to Thailand to train MMA/Muay Thai that you’re pretty serious about the sport. So I’d hate to have your career ruined because of a positive test for a banned substance. EQ is detectable up to a year or two later. Test isn’t nearly as detectable.

If I were you, I’d run Test E 500mg a week for 10 weeks, Adex, and Nolva. Based on your goals, that cycle would be perfect for you. [/quote]

See that was part of my concern as well, from what I had read Deca will stay in your system for a year. Whereas EQ from what I hear stays in your system for 6 months. Which would be ideal, I mean my joints will be taking a beating so thats really why I wanted to take EQ. In all likely hood I will prob end up using EQ. When I get there, I’ll be sure to write a log. Worst case scenario I’ll just run Test. Thanks for all of your guys input, much appreciated.

So what I’ll be getting over there:
Test E
EQ
Adex

What I’ll be have waiting for me is clomid/nolva. I plan on conducting a science experiment, anyone have a research pharmaceutical site that they can pm me ;)?