T Nation

Possible Elevated E2?


#1

I've been reading in these forums for quite some time, and was hoping that I could get some input from you guys. I'll give some background information, and if I forget anything, or if anything else would be helpful, just let me know. I am 31 years old, 6'2", 230lbs.

I haven't measured body fat recently, and though it is a little higher than it was a few years ago, it's still not bad. I would estimate anywhere from 10-15% (right at the point where abdominals are visible). I tend to store fat in the love handles and ass. I have very little body hair (a little around the nipples and literally one or two hairs on the chest). I am concerned about some things that have been going on for the last couple of years.

I have had a sharp decrease in libido, and seem to only be interested or perform well when I have had cialis. My sex drive is a roller coaster. It might be up for a day or 2, and then completely disappear for 1-2 weeks. When i am in the mood and it happens, I am very quick to finish. I have also been experiencing some signs of a slightly enlarged prostate off and on.

I have some blood work that is pending and should be back by Monday, however, I could not convince my Dr. to test for E2. The only thing he would agree to was t, free t, and thyroid (he didn't tell me which ones for thyroid specifically.) I will post my levels when the results come back. I know this will be limited information, but that's all I could get.

I tried to get in to see several other Doctors, but all the ones in my network that were close were not accepting new patients. My t and free t was checked about a year and a half ago and both were in the upper ranges, which surprised me with the symptoms that I was experiencing along with the way I felt. I am wondering if everything that is going on could be caused by a slightly elevated e2 level?

I have no signs of gyno, but I know that most of my other symptoms could be linked to something like this. I have considered buying some anastrozole and experimenting with this, starting with a very low dosage, to see if anything improves. Would this be safe, and would I risk any other type of permanent imbalance?

How long could I run this, and if my e2 did happen to be higher than it needs to be, could this correct the issue even after I discontinued taking it? I appreciate anyone who is willing to discuss this, and would be happy to provide any other information that you guys think would be helpful. I know some other lab work would help, but this is what I'm stuck with as of right now.

Like I said, I will provide the levels that were tested early next week. I would just like to get this discussion started.


#2

Depending on where you live, you may be able to order your own labs and we can review here.
On sale next month, get membership: lef.org/vitamins-supplements/ItemLC322582/Male-Panel-Blood-Test

What is your waist size? - that explains things better

Your T may be low and its then a symptom, not a cause. Need to avoid T-tunnel vision. Your T levels could be OK and thyroid can create the same symptoms that you have or do that and also lower T.

Please read these stickies:
- advice for new guys
- thyroid basics
-- check body temperatures as suggested

As far as your doctor is concerned, your thyroid labs are probably normal [even if not].

?
Do you get cold easier now
Weight gain and cannot loose weight
Brain fog, depression, low energy
Dry skin
Thyroid looks bigger, asymmetrical or lumpy
Out eyebrows sparse
You stopped using iodized salt
?

Low hair on your chest may be indicating that T levels never were high and incomplete virilization. What about facial hair?

Labs:
TT
FT
E2
prolactin
LH/FSH
CBC w HTC
fasting cholesterol
fasting glucose
TSH
fT3
fT4 [ please not T3, T4]

Post all labs with ranges in list format.

Action items:
body temperatures
report long term iodized salt use, dates etc
read stickies
look into doing you own labs


#3

Thank you for the reply. I will answer your questions and hopefully post my lab numbers later today, if they come in.

All of my pants are waist size 32 - 34.

I do not get cold easily.

I gain weight in the form of muscle mass easily when I am lifting weights, and drop weight pretty quick if I stop lifting for an extended period of time.

I don't suffer from severe depression or brain fog.

I do get dry skin, but mostly in the winter time. Not a problem in the spring and summer months.

My thyroid has no visible or palpable abnormalities.

My eyebrows are normal.

I have always had iodized salt.

I have facial hair, it was just slow to come in. It is actually still filling in at the age of 31. I notice more every month.

I don't forsee testosterone being a problem. Like I said, when I had it checked a little over a year ago, I was on the high side. Other than my lack of body hair, and slow to come in facial hair, I do not lack any male characteristics. I have always been atheletic, have good muscle mass, deep voice, etc. I highly doubt thyroid is a problem either... we will see what my labs say.

My only real issue is libido, and sometimes performance. I can get more specific with this if it would help. I am certain there is something going on with my prostate as well. It just feels "uncomfortable" in that region sometimes, and this seems to coincide with performance issues in the bedroom. (80% erections, severe p.e.)
I know that e2 can cause prostate issues, but it seems odd that this could be high with my t levels being in the mid - upper ranges. (Not getting t tunnel vision, just discussing the labs that I've acutally had.) I guess I can only speculate until I get some more labs. I would love to order my own test, but I will have to save some money before I am able to do that. I will post my current numbers when I recieve them, (hopefully today) and go from there. I know it's hard to determine much from the limited labs being provided, but maybe there will be just enough to narrow things down even a little. Thank you for your help.


#4

Body temperatures are the bottom line for overall thyroid function. Cheap, fast, and easy.


#5

I bought a thermometer yesterday and have been taking my temperature every few hours since this morning. When I woke up, my temperature was 96.3. It slowly climbed to around 97 by mid afternoon, and pretty much stayed there. I just took it once more, and it was 97.4. My Dr. called this afternoon and said that my labs would probably take a couple more days to come in, so I will post them when that happens. I didn't expect my temperature to be this low. Thank you KSman for beating this into my thick skull. I have other mild symptoms such as low energy/motivation, and just not feeling quite right, but the most frustrating is of the sexual nature. There are times when it feels very unnatural, and it is very difficult to get aroused. When I feel like this, I am severely premature. It's like I'm fighting my body.

Other times, I do feel better and perform better, but I haven't felt completely normal and really "turned on" for a very long time. Last month, I went on a business trip for a couple of days. The first night we had quite a few drinks. When I woke up the next morning, I felt horrible, but was actually horny. I felt almost normal for a few days after this. Sex was actually on my mind off and on throughout the days, and I felt like I had some form of libido. Unfortunately, this didn't last. The Dr. also tried to suggest that it was in my head, and that maybe I was getting older, and then even said they might be able to help me find a psychologist or psychiatrist. It's very frustrating to hear this kind of thing, because I am 100% sure that this is not in my head. I am 31, and though I don't expect to have the sex drive of an 18 year old, I should have a healthy appetite for it. I always have until the last couple of years. This is not something that is easy to discuss with people openly, so it feels good to come here and vent, and I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this stuff and offer any guidance or help. I will list more history and anything else that I think might help solve this once my labs come back and I post them.


#6

So you have a nice functional hypothyroidism. You need those thyroid labs. Your labs will probably all be "normal" and you can guess what the doctors will say. Welcome to the Oasis of knowledge.

Now check your wife's temperatures. Nice to see that she can get 98.6 with the thermometer.

Make sure that you are not eating, drinking, exercising for a while before taking temperatures.


#7

Waking temperature this morning was 95.9. I tested the thermometer several times on my son after I bought it, and he was consistently anywhere from 98.6-99.1. Hopefully labs will be in by tomorrow.


#8

Alright, I just received my labs. I wish I had a few more things added to this, but hopefully we can work with this for now. Blood was drawn at about 8:00 a.m.

TSH - 1.73 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L
T4 Total - 9.5 4.5 - 12.0 mcg/dl
Free T4 Index - 2.9 1.4 - 3.8
T4 Free - 1.4 0.8 - 1.8 ng/dl
T3 Uptake - 31 22 - 35%
TT - 549 250 - 1100 ng/dl
FT - 90.5 35.0 - 155.0 pg/ml


#9

T3 uptake is rather useless now that one can get fT3 lab work.

"Thyroid hormone uptake

Thyroid hormone uptake (Tuptake or T3 uptake) is a measure of the unbound thyroxine binding globulins in the blood, that is, the TBG that is unsaturated with thyroid hormone.[2] Unsaturated TBG increases with decreased levels of thyroid hormones. It is not directly related to triiodothyronine, despite the name T3 uptake.[2]"

I wonder how many doctors really understand this lab.

Your TSH is a bit high. The other thyroid hormones suggest that you don't have a problem at first glance as they are a bit over mid-range. But that can occur if not enough fT3 is getting into the cells. Above, you suggest that iodine deficiency is not likely. What are your stress levels like? What major stress events in the past? [including job loss, accidents, infections, surgeries ...]


#10

I use iodized salt, but I know you have said that this may be just enough to tread water, so there could be something there. I have had much change in the past year...getting engaged, moving in together, new job, and many other common life issues. I guess stress could possible play a role in things. I was a heavy opiate user for a while, but got on a medication called suboxone, which is an opiate itself. I took the suboxone for about 1.5 years and slowly tapered off of it. I have been off of everything for 26 months.

I wonder sometimes if this plays a role. In the past when I would briefly stop the pills, I would experience a surge in libido. I was waiting for this to happen once I had tapered off of the sub completely, but it never really came back full force, and I was stuck with a quick trigger, if you catch my drift. I rarely have a few drinks, but it seems like alcohol just makes me feel worse most of the time when I do have it. I really get no good feelings from it anymore.

I am open for any suggestions that I could try that would help me dismiss possible problems by process of elimination, as long as I wouldn't run the risk of causing more lingering problems. Out of curiosity, what do you think of my t levels? My total was lower than I had hoped, but it seems like the free t is ok? Would free t be the more important number to look at? Also, would my blood being taken in the morning cause my levels to be lower or higher?


#11

Because your T levels are "average", TSH elevated [vs optima] and body temps are low, I am inclined to focus on fT3, rT3 and low body temperatures for now. Sometimes low thyroid function can drive T levels lower and we have seen some guys recover T levels if/when thyroid function is restored. With low temperatures, every part of your body is running low, partly from the temperature, but more because the mitochondria are running low and limiting energy that the cells use and low body temperatures are the result. So we don't know how your mind, body and libido will run if thyroid issues can be resolved.


#12

Would you recommend iodine supplementation to try to raise boy temperature, or should I try another route? For me personally, being on buprenorphine sucked and had all kinds of negative side effects. I assumed my body would have returned to normalcy after not taking any for over 2 years. I do drink a 12 oz cup of coffee every morning. Could the caffeine be causing any problems? I know it's highly doubtful, but I'm trying to take everything into account.


#13

Caffeine could not be a cause of all of this.

You can try IR and see what happens. If temps do not respond; fT3 and rT3 would be definitive.

AS STATED in the sticky, you need an identifiable source of selenium intake, especially for IR.


#14

The multivitamin that I take has 200 mcg of selenium (as L-Selenomethionine). I also just noticed that it has 150 mcg of iodine (as kelp). Another thing that has been going on since all this started is lower digestive problems. cramping, loose stools, thin stools, etc. Basically, I haven't had a bowel movement that I would consider normal in a very long time. Psyllium husks help. I try to take a dose about once a week. If I try IR, what source should I use? Is there a specific supplement that you would recommend? If this doesn't raise my temperature, I guess my next move would be to visit another DR. to have fT3 and rT3 tested?