Pope's Been Given Last Rites

miniross, I also am disgusted by the systematic coverup of the child molestation by the Catholic Church.

I don’t know the inner workings of the Church enough to know what blame to place on the Pope, but I suspect this has been happening for centuries.

It just feeds my general distrust for all large institutions.

[quote]miniross wrote:
hijack alert. yanks would say that. who exactly captured the enigma machine by taking control of a german u boat?

i rest my case!

As it stands, there is more than likely plenty of welsh/irish and scot blood in me, along with germanic, nordic and french (boo)[/quote]

The one worthwhile thing the English did since magna carta???
:wink:

S’okay Ross.

jackzepp:
Good article. Thanks.
I learned a lot.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
jackzepp:
Good article. Thanks.
I learned a lot.
[/quote]

If you research further, you’ll find that the Pope had more to do with the collapse of Communism than Reagan. Reagan spent a lot of time with Pope John Paul II and collaborated with his work to orchestrate the process.

There are many facts about this wonderful Pope that are overshadowed by some of the greater things that he has done. He is a humble servant of the Church and serves all of us, no matter who you are.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
jackzepp:
Good article. Thanks.
I learned a lot.
[/quote]

Jackzeppelin, ditto. Much of it I knew, but it’s nice to see someone lay it all out like that. It’s amazing to me to hear people talk about “What has the pope done?” and claim it must be nothing simply because THEY never bothered to look into him much. Your own ignorance does little to prove your point.

And believe me, your saying you are disgusted with priest abuse cover-up is not anything different than 99.99% of American Catholics feel anyway. But even that does not detract from the great accomplishments of our Pope John Paul II.

Kuz
(Nice Catholic boy since 1972)

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
jackzepp:
Good article. Thanks.
I learned a lot.

If you research further, you’ll find that the Pope had more to do with the collapse of Communism than Reagan. Reagan spent a lot of time with Pope John Paul II and collaborated with his work to orchestrate the process.

There are many facts about this wonderful Pope that are overshadowed by some of the greater things that he has done. He is a humble servant of the Church and serves all of us, no matter who you are.[/quote]

so the Italian news agencies are reporting that John Paul has died. No confirmation from the Vatican.
He wanted to get to Russia before he died. I think God might have some explaining to do.
I’m not religious or Catholic, but I do admire him.
Pax.

[quote]miniross wrote:
juice

Please feel free to educate me on this. Persuade me that i am wrong, and demonstrate his accomplishments. i have a sense of history, i am english![/quote]

you are wrong. end of story.

trying to educate or persuade someone who obviously has ill-founded opinions based on pure ignorance/lack of knowledge/intelligence is a complete waste of my time.

i’ll leave it to those with more patience and tolerance.

have a nice day.

[quote]Al Shades wrote:
“The Pope? How many divisions has he got?” - Uncle Joe Stalin, upon recieving word of the Vatican’s disapproval of his policies. [/quote]

I’d estimate at LEAST one more than Joseph Stalin, considering the RCC is so strong vs. communism.

Matt

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
jackzepplin wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
jackzepp:
Good article. Thanks.
I learned a lot.

If you research further, you’ll find that the Pope had more to do with the collapse of Communism than Reagan. Reagan spent a lot of time with Pope John Paul II and collaborated with his work to orchestrate the process.

There are many facts about this wonderful Pope that are overshadowed by some of the greater things that he has done. He is a humble servant of the Church and serves all of us, no matter who you are.

so the Italian news agencies are reporting that John Paul has died. No confirmation from the Vatican. He wanted to get to Russia before he died. I think God might have some explaining to do. I’m not religious or Catholic, but I do admire him.
Pax.
[/quote]

He’s not dead, yet. The reports that have come out are conflicting. However, who knows the truth?

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:

He’s not dead, yet. The reports that have come out are conflicting. However, who knows the truth?[/quote]

nope. Apparently not. He’s a tough old bugger. Then again, he’s had to be.

Can you say tough old bugger about the Pope?

I think we should see him as most movers and shakers - with the presumption of his good will, recognition of his accomplishments and fair criticism.

Even as a non-christian, I recognise his accomplished and devoted life as a christian leader, especially in the face of oppression, and his strong motivation to reach out. I strongly criticise his policies on birth control and sexuality though, especially in the developing countries (check encyclica humanae vitae on the Vatican homepage). I hope the next pope will be less conservative - and I hope it won’t be Ratzinger.

As I would for anyone who has honestly tried to do his best for mankind, I wish him all the best and a peaceful way out of this world.

Makkun

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
miniross wrote:
juice

Please feel free to educate me on this. Persuade me that i am wrong, and demonstrate his accomplishments. i have a sense of history, i am english!

If you have a “sense” of history, then you should be smart enough to go to www.google.com and read a little about the man.

The ignorance of this thread runs deep. Pick up a book, search the internet, do ANYTHING, but don’t be ignorant. Pope John Paul II achieved more before he became pope than most people do in their entire lives. What have you done?[/quote]

The continued stance of the catholic church has lead millions to die of aids in africa.

as the head of the catholic church he has to be party to that outrage.

and he should do more than most people. he is in a position of influence, all i am saying is that it could have been used better,

and that last comment is just, well dumb. i could turn that around onto your good self and negate it. there, done.

[quote]hedo wrote:
miniross wrote:
juice

Please feel free to educate me on this. Persuade me that i am wrong, and demonstrate his accomplishments. i have a sense of history, i am english!

A history of intellectual cosmopolitanism perhaps.

Hasn’t it got you Brits in enough trouble over the years.

The man lived an accomplished life. Trying to tarnish it with silly comments diminishes you, not him.

[/quote]

This is not answering my question.

i have no reputation to tarnish, it is shit anyway.

I am not trying to tarnish it, just make valid points that differ from yours.

also, who hasn’t had an accomplshed life, especially if you have children. tha is all there is, you know. everything else counts s fluff.

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
jackzepp:
Good article. Thanks.
I learned a lot.

If you research further, you’ll find that the Pope had more to do with the collapse of Communism than Reagan. Reagan spent a lot of time with Pope John Paul II and collaborated with his work to orchestrate the process.

There are many facts about this wonderful Pope that are overshadowed by some of the greater things that he has done. He is a humble servant of the Church and serves all of us, no matter who you are.[/quote]

communism is still healthy in a number of enclaves. and in all of that article, nothing come to affect 80 percent of the worlds population.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
miniross wrote:
juice

Please feel free to educate me on this. Persuade me that i am wrong, and demonstrate his accomplishments. i have a sense of history, i am english!

you are wrong. end of story.

trying to educate or persuade someone who obviously has ill-founded opinions based on pure ignorance/lack of knowledge/intelligence is a complete waste of my time.

i’ll leave it to those with more patience and tolerance.

have a nice day.

[/quote]

See this is just a cop out. i have the conviction to stand and make conversation, this is just demonstrating that you have a lack of knowledge. This attitude would be best demonstrated by those that follow any sort of dogma, and follow blindly and do not question.

All of this prayer effort is going into saving the pope…or something.

Now, i would hope that if there is heaven, that his place would be assured, and assuming that prayer actually does anything, then there are millions of more deserved cases that demand that attention.

[quote]miniross wrote:
jackzepplin wrote:
miniross wrote:
juice

Please feel free to educate me on this. Persuade me that i am wrong, and demonstrate his accomplishments. i have a sense of history, i am english!

If you have a “sense” of history, then you should be smart enough to go to www.google.com and read a little about the man.

The ignorance of this thread runs deep. Pick up a book, search the internet, do ANYTHING, but don’t be ignorant. Pope John Paul II achieved more before he became pope than most people do in their entire lives. What have you done?

The continued stance of the catholic church has lead millions to die of aids in africa.

as the head of the catholic church he has to be party to that outrage.

and he should do more than most people. he is in a position of influence, all i am saying is that it could have been used better,

and that last comment is just, well dumb. i could turn that around onto your good self and negate it. there, done.[/quote]

I sometimes take it upon myself to educate the ignorant, but you seem too far beyond reach.

[quote]miniross wrote:
hedo wrote:
miniross wrote:
juice

Please feel free to educate me on this. Persuade me that i am wrong, and demonstrate his accomplishments. i have a sense of history, i am english!

A history of intellectual cosmopolitanism perhaps.

Hasn’t it got you Brits in enough trouble over the years.

The man lived an accomplished life. Trying to tarnish it with silly comments diminishes you, not him.

This is not answering my question.

i have no reputation to tarnish, it is shit anyway.

I am not trying to tarnish it, just make valid points that differ from yours.

also, who hasn’t had an accomplshed life, especially if you have children. tha is all there is, you know. everything else counts s fluff.[/quote]

Any idiot can have kids, so what is you point? You have kids? See. Point proved.

[quote]miniross wrote:
See this is just a cop out. i have the conviction to stand and make conversation, this is just demonstrating that you have a lack of knowledge. This attitude would be best demonstrated by those that follow any sort of dogma, and follow blindly and do not question.[/quote]

except that you’re kicking a sensitive area at a really bad time.
Look, I’m not religious or catholic. But I admire him as a man and feel saddened by his death.
JackZep posted a pretty good article, I assume you read it?

The pope actually did a lot; the problem is most americans didn’t hear about it because much of it was in opposition to US government policy.